Shift & Thrive: CEO Insights on Driving Change

S&T_Elena Gantvarg
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[00:00:00] In today's business world, change is the only constant, and mastering transformation is the ultimate key to success. Welcome to Shift and Thrive. I'm your host, Natalie Nathanson.

Each week we'll bring you conversations with CEOs who delve into how they successfully drove critical change in their organization. This show is sponsored by Magnitude Consulting, bringing you the thinking power of a growth consult. And the getting it done, power of a full service B2B marketing agency.

Natalie Nathanson: Welcome to our first official episode of the Investor Spotlight series on Shift and Thrive. While we've had some great conversations with investors on the show before, after getting repeated requests from listeners for more, we're leaning in more intentionally now with the dedicated series to explore what investors are really thinking and in a capital environment that's evolving fast.

It's never been more valuable to understand how value [00:01:00] gets built and what separates companies that scale from those that stall. This series is intended to give you a direct line into that perspective through candid conversations with successful investors who are backing the next generation of market leaders.

And with that, I am so excited to introduce today's guest. She's an accomplished early stage investor with a diverse background whose perspective is shaped by global experience and a track record of backing companies that have become category leaders and achieved standout exits. She's part of a globally focused early stage venture capital firm that helps founders across the us, Europe, and Israel to build scale and expand into new markets, often with a strong emphasis on US entry and expansion, the firm's investment span sectors, including cybersecurity, FinTech, digital health, and enterprise software.

She is a principal at Flint Capital. Elena Ard, welcome to the show.

Elena Gantvarg: Thank you. Thank you, Natalie, for having me.

Natalie Nathanson: I am very glad to have you on the show, and I [00:02:00] always love to start with a story about transformation and to be honest, more of the ones that I've heard both on the podcast and, You know, with my own CEO and founder network, um, are more from the, the CEO's perspective. And so I'd love to hear one from your purview as an investor.

I'm curious, are there any big stories that stand out, uh, about a real transformation that you witnessed in a venture?

Elena Gantvarg: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, we witness it every day. Uh, also as our. Other companies. And, uh, uh, if, if you are asking about like, what was the main, You know, like, uh, driver trigger, what, what kind of informa, uh, transformation happened, uh, that, uh, took the company to the next stage? Uh, very often it's more than one.

Uh, uh, one thing, one change. Uh, I remember we have a company, our portfolio, we let, uh, uh, series A there, uh. Um, back in 2016, I believe, [00:03:00] and, uh, uh, the company was struggling and when they were raising their next round, we kind of were not entirely sure, uh, whether they, we want to continue participating in this journey.

Uh, luckily, uh, we decided that, uh, You know, like we'll continue investing in the company and, uh, uh, today, uh, the company is, uh, valued at like. Uh, I think about like four and a half billion. And, uh, uh, so they, they totally, You know, like made, made the shift from a struggling company to, to, uh, to this kind of company.

And, uh, uh, what led to it? Uh, You know, like, it, it would be wrong to say that one thing led to this. It's like it is, uh. Uh, uh, change of, uh, um, change of management. Uh, it's, uh, um, You know, like, uh, it's a bit with some strategic acquisitions. It's, uh, uh, [00:04:00] um, I dunno, like, um, aggressive, uh, I would say aggressive expansion into like, uh, high volume sectors and, uh, uh, and of course some luck.

Natalie Nathanson: Yep. There's always a little bit of luck involved, but much more skill than anything else. For sure. Um, I'm curious to hear what was the relationship like, You know, when you did make that decision to invest in them again and kind of through all of these changes, what was the relationship like between, You know, you and your firm and kind of the, the founder or leadership team, uh, on the other end?

Elena Gantvarg: You know, it, it, it, it was a good working relationship. It, it was just a little bit, we were trying to understand when we were making this decision, we were trying to understand what is the potential there and whether, uh, the main challenges that they were, were facing at that time, whether they're resolvable and, uh, uh, uh, yeah, so.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, and [00:05:00] you mentioned this started a while back, but do you remember what was the first lever that was pulled that really. Started them on this, uh, kind of new trajectory.

Elena Gantvarg: Um. I think it was, uh, uh, it was like change of management, honestly. Uh, because, You know, very often what we see is that, uh, a CEO that starts a company and takes it off the ground and, uh, takes it to the next level. Uh, You know, to from, from zero to to series B. It's not always the same person that can take the company from that series B, uh, to be in a unicorn.

So sometimes, You know, like, uh, uh, a change of, uh, uh, uh, a change of people is important.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, and I know it can be hard at times for the founder to, to let go, whether it's, You know, sometimes by choice and sometimes. Not, but I also know that sometimes the founder like really feels it themselves and they make that recommendation.[00:06:00]

Elena Gantvarg: You know, like it's, uh, it, it is, uh, uh, occasionally it is very painful, but then, uh, very often it's. Not as painful because the founders do realize their, uh, limits and very often they're not even interested in participating in this kind of scale, You know, a game, uh, they just want back and start something new again.

You know, they can take in another company, uh, off the ground. So, so it's not always, uh, it's not always bad.

Natalie Nathanson: Right, for sure. I wanna shift gears a bit and talk about how you evaluate companies at this early stage. And I know you're focused primarily on, You know, seed through Series A. Uh, can you talk about like what you're really looking for, uh, from, from a founder or or organization at this stage,

Elena Gantvarg: So our sweet spot is. Seed, uh, and, uh, uh, seed rounds are not where they used to be about 10 years ago. So, [00:07:00] uh, uh, 10 years ago we would, we would call it Series A, uh, I think so for seed rounds, we do, uh, want to see, uh, product market fit and some, uh, initial traction. Uh, and, uh, we don't have hard. You know, like requirements towards like the revenues or the number of customers.

Uh, but we want to see, uh, some ability of the founders to, to, to sell, uh, and, and, uh, and some interest from the buyers for Prese. You know, it's, it's all about the team. Because they hardly have anything, uh, uh, You know, like the idea is very often, like worse, basically. Not like, I, I feel bad saying nothing, but let's say not much.

It's, it's not worth much. So it's more about the kick execution. And if we believe that the founders, they have the right people to execute this, [00:08:00] uh, this is what, uh, uh, what will be the most important. And Series A is basically all about the numbers.

Natalie Nathanson: Uh, I'm curious on the, the seed round, uh, what kind of expectations are there around kind of the, the timing to scale? And I'm sure there are some differences by organization, but any kind of generalizations you can share?

Elena Gantvarg: Uh, these days the expectations, uh, are very high. Uh, You know, I recently talked to, uh, uh, to one investor from California. They have very hard numbers. They wanted to see a company being able to scale to 1 million in revenues within a year, into 5 million in revenues within two years. So, uh, we don't have like this kind of requirements, uh, but the thing is, You know, we see many companies, uh, that were able to grow exponentially and scale their revenues to a few, uh, few million, uh, within, uh, [00:09:00] five months, six months was two or three people. And we as investors, we can invest our, like 1 million only once. So every investor is basically looking for, uh, for the company's that is, uh, uh, capable of scaling, uh, exponentially. And, uh, another thing is that, uh, this days, um, I believe that it's very, very difficult, uh, to build any sustainable competitive mode with.

Technology, uh, uh, it's, uh, it wasn't like that, uh, like even like three to five years ago. Um, but today it's, You know, this whole game is becoming about like, who's running faster,

Natalie Nathanson: yeah, no, that I see that too. I think just so much changing in kind of the process of like how software is built, how it's sold, really like across, across the board. Um, the, the piece around the [00:10:00] competitive moat shifting, I think is a very interesting one. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Elena Gantvarg: yeah, uh, absolutely. So first of all, You know, look, I still, I still, uh, uh, want to hear from the companies, uh, like what, uh, uh, what do they actually think about their sustainable, competitive mode? So I always ask this question, realizing that there is no good answer. You know, so, so, so I just wanted to, to, to, to hear their thoughts and, uh, uh, but at that, uh, having said that, You know, Go-to-market becomes very important.

Uh, how, uh, uh, how do they plan to execute? How do they plan to scale? Do they understand? Uh, uh. You know, like their, uh, space and the, uh, and the ways to scale in that space, that industry, uh, uh, et cetera. Uh, for example, uh, You know, like if, uh, if, um, if we talk about the shifts like in, in, uh, [00:11:00] Go-to-market strategy, which is very important, uh, uh, today, uh, it's always been important, but it's changing.

You know, like a few years ago, um, I would say a startup would. Pick, uh, like choose a Go-to-market strategy, uh, and whether it's, um, uh, product led or sales led or, or marketing labs, they would justify, they would defend it and, uh, You know, like, go with it. Uh, I think that what has changed the most during the last few years is that the buyers, they don't want to be sold to.

You know, they, they want to, um, to touch the product, You know, realize the value instantly, uh, by, instantly by talking about minutes, You know, uh, maybe hours, like less desirable, but uh, uh, if we're talking about weeks, just [00:12:00] forget it, You know? So it's, uh, it's what we're like, it's PLG, You know, product, uh, product led growth that is not new.

Uh, but, uh, uh, uh, we used to talk about it as a Go-to-market strategy. Uh, these days it's not even, it's not even Go-to-market strategy. It's an absolute, uh, requirement. You know, it's a requirement, it's a, uh, it helps to open, uh, the door for you. Uh, but, uh, it just, uh, it's not sufficient. Uh, because, uh, after, uh, uh, the, You know, the buyers are not the users of the products.

So after somebody played with the product, like the product saw the value, then uh, uh, sales should come in and, and address all the remaining issues included, including, uh. Uh, compliance, You know, like risk mitigation, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, so if you, if if you [00:13:00] do it the way around, like sales first and then product value later, this is not going to work today.

Uh, right. So, so, um, yeah. So I, this is what I see as a main, uh, main shift during the last, uh, uh, during the last few years.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I think it's a big one, and I know Alon of organizations are still trying to wrap their arms around it, and I think part of it is driven by, like you said. Changes in what the users expect or what they need or, uh, You know, it's so hard to know who to trust because it's easy for a company to kind of look polished and credible and professional and not always have, uh, kind of the, the, the credibility behind the scenes.

Um, You know,

Elena Gantvarg: Yes. And, and, and I, I just, I just wanted to add that, You know, like it's, uh, uh, uh, yes, we talk about the PLGI immediate, uh, uh, uh, value, et cetera. However, it, it's very difficult to talk about like the right, uh, Go-to-market, uh, [00:14:00] unrelated to, uh, to specific like industries and sectors. For example, You know, like I look Alon at Caltech and Digital Health, uh, and uh, uh.

Uh, PLG for, uh, for Health Stack. It's, uh, it's cute, You know, it just, uh, uh, uh, because there is, uh, uh, when it comes to like, let's say selling to hospitals, there is no, uh, no self-serve. Uh, You know, it's, it's, uh, it just works. Um. Uh, it works differently. You still have to build credibility. You still have to run, uh, the pilots, You know, and, and, uh, only, only them.

Like at some point he will move to, to, to contract. So, so, uh, uh, PG uh, would, doesn't do much. Uh, there, it's, it's, uh. Um, uh, at, at most it [00:15:00] could replace, uh, uh, this like, uh, demo, demo stage, You know? Yeah.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah, it definitely comes more natural. Or is more natural for some types of companies than others. The interesting thing is, I think the shift is even bigger than that. Um, I'm gonna be speaking next week on a, a webinar, uh, for kind of selling into the federal government and the Department of War has completely like re-architected, um, their expectations and they're really driving the tech vendors to, uh, to do just what you said.

And so it's happening right in both government and, uh, commercial, but to that point, easier. Easier in some cases than others.

Elena Gantvarg: Yeah, sure. Absolutely.

Hey, this is Natalie, your Shift and Thrive host. After chatting with lots of CEOs, one thing is crystal clear. Leveling up your company means having a killer Go-to-market strategy. That's what my crew at Magnitude Consulting does every day. If you're trying to step up your marketing game, whether it's [00:16:00] strategizing, accelerating your pipeline, expanding into new markets, or getting into AI and automation, let's talk.

No pitch, no pressure. Just good conversation. Visit shift and thrive podcast.com/natalie to schedule a time. Can't wait to connect.

Natalie Nathanson: I am curious. I know, um, I wanna talk a little bit more about Go-to-market, and I know there are Alon of differences depending on, You know, different organizations and industry sectors and all of that.

Um, but curious if you think there are any like common traits or decisions that you see successful startups making when it comes to like, how they think about their Go-to-market and like where to, where to focus at those early stages.

Elena Gantvarg: Uh, it's hard to sell. I think that, uh, uh, hard to tell. Uh, I think that, uh, uh. The founders that, uh, that are thinking like forward, uh, uh, they just start thinking about their Go-to-market very early on. Uh, again, as an example and, [00:17:00] uh, digital health and health stack, like many startups that are selling to the hospitals, You know, they may go out of business before they signed that first contract.

Right. The sales cycles are very lengthy and with, with other enterprises, uh, uh, as well. So, uh, there is no, uh, right answer here. But, but some, some companies start with, uh, like smaller clinics, You know, just to be able to generate some revenues while, uh, selling to, uh, trying to push the product to, to the hospital systems like at the same time.

You know, but, but you need to think about it because if, if, uh, uh, uh, if your product is new and you are trying to push it, uh, uh, some companies are thinking of, uh, building a product with design partners. Like, works really great. Because you have early adopters, somebody, uh, to, to, uh, uh, to test the product and, uh, uh, to, to, uh, [00:18:00] contribute like what they want to see, what is important, what is less, less important, et cetera.

Uh, uh, that, that's, that's great. But if, if you, You know, uh, uh, sit at home and build a product that you think somebody is gonna need and then you try to push it to the hospital system and then it's gonna take like two years, that's, uh, probably not something that will end well.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I think one of the things I'm seeing in kind of the founder. In particular is an openness to, uh, to pivot, but at the same time not being too quick to kind of lose patience and change course. And I think some, You know, startups flounder in that kind of middle zone.

Elena Gantvarg: Well, You know, of course, uh, you can pivot, uh, uh, any time. But, but, uh, uh, uh, not because the grass is greener, uh, elsewhere. You really need to understand why you're pivoting and, uh, what can, what can you do better, uh, after your pivot? [00:19:00] Um, yeah. Uh, so, so it's, it's, uh, um. It, it is difficult, You know, it's difficult to find the right moment to put, so, so you, you have to, to realize the challenges you are facing.

You have to understand whether you can do anything about them, with them now or in a month or, or, uh, whether, whether you can resolve them at all and, and or maybe the market has changed. You know, like it's the, the market changes this days very quickly and, uh, uh, maybe you realize that, You know, like the product you have built, it's, uh, uh, it doesn't have the value that you hoped it would.

So definitely pivoting is okay. Uh, uh, it's just, uh, uh, at the right, the right time for the right reasons.

Natalie Nathanson: curious to ask you, what do you see as the, the role that investors should play in guiding those early Go-to-market decisions, either kind of in general or, uh, your firm's [00:20:00] philosophy on it.

Elena Gantvarg: My firm, uh, like we at Flint, we like to be, uh, hands on. We like to help our companies with whatever they need, uh, help with. Uh, having said that, You know, like we don't like to, uh, uh, um, kind of to, to push, You know, like our, uh, like, uh, we can share our thoughts and we have experience and we like the founders that, uh, will listen to us.

And, uh, uh, not necessarily do what they would tell them to do. Right? Because very often they would have to deal with many investors and, and, uh, uh, very often the investors don't agree, You know, so it's like, what should the founder do? So they, they should think for themselves, of course, but, uh, uh. Um, but listening is important because after all, uh, we do have many companies in our [00:21:00] portfolio.

You know, like we, we, uh, we work with the companies and we have some experience, uh, but uh, we prefer the companies to communicate to us what is it that they're struggling with. You know, we can help with anything. We can help with, with, uh. Uh, uh, was thinking about the strategies we can help with, uh, uh, with speech deck, we can help with introductions to, to, uh, investors and potential customers.

Uh, we can help with, with, uh, uh, hiring the right, uh, uh, uh, the right people at the right time. For example, we invest Alon in Israeli companies and, uh, You know, it's, it's, um, it's a small country, so, uh, uh, they have r and d there, but then they expand. Uh, either to Europe or to the US and more often to the, to the us.

So if, uh, if they build a presence here, we can help with that too. So we can help with many things, but, but, uh, uh, we always ask our companies to come to us and, uh, uh, uh, communicate, You know, like what is it that they [00:22:00] need help with?

Natalie Nathanson: I wanna ask a bit more about, You know, the market entry for the US because that's a place that my firm, uh, works with Alon of organizations as well. And I've seen, uh, some very successful entries and some, uh, maybe kind of a bit, uh, trickier or some starts and stops. For them that they'd experienced. Um, so I'm curious, like what guidance do you give around that readiness for entering the US market?

Like what should a company have in place? What should they be prepared to put in place to be successful?

Elena Gantvarg: so before, before we invest in a company that is planning to move to the US, we always want to see a little bit of traction in the us. And the reason for that is that, uh, we had our, um, uh, stories that were not very successful. Uh, for example, I know, um, a couple of times we invested in companies overseas that.

Were able of [00:23:00] building, uh, You know, they were very successful overseas and they are local, uh, local markets. But then they moved to the US and they were completely unable to replicate, uh, their success, uh, in the us. And, uh, uh, it's, You know, it's not even, uh, very often it's not about the advice we can give very often.

It's just cultural, uh, cultural, You know, like, uh, uh, uh, issues that prevent the companies from growth. To give you an example. I once was asked to talk to, uh, Australian cybersecurity companies that were selected by the government, You know, and they wanted to expand, uh, uh, to the US uh, market. And as I was talking to one company, they were doing great.

You know, like founded maybe like a, uh, uh, a year before that, or one and a half years, generated a couple of million in revenues. And, uh, uh, so they were raising around and, uh, [00:24:00] expanding to the US and I asked them like, how much are you raising? And they said like, uh, probably like, You know, 750 k, maybe 1 million. And asked 'em why, because obviously they were doing great. They already generated a couple of million in revenues and they said like, well, well, we don't need more. You know, like, so, so, uh, uh. The thing is that they were not hungry for, uh, this exponential growth. The, the, it was just a very different, uh, set of mind. You know, like in the US we expect, You know, like the companies to, to, to raise and to scale or to scale without racing, whatever. But, but, uh, the speed is very different and, uh, in many European countries and Australia as well, like, uh, people are like totally fine. Was taking it slow. You know, so, so, uh, it's, it's not like very, very often, uh, this, like the factors that are [00:25:00] outside of our control or air control.

It's just, uh, uh, uh, like, uh, culture, cultural things. Um, but, uh, um, some countries like, uh, like Israel. The mentality, uh, works well, You know, like, and, and the, the many startups are very successful. They're great technology. They also like to, to to scale quickly and, and, and, uh, uh, so there is a good, uh, uh, a good, uh, like it's compatible with, uh, uh, with the US and, uh, um.

Uh, the reason why we decided that we want to see some traction in the US from the companies is to, to see that the, that actually the companies know, like, know how to scale, to how to sell and scale. Uh, uh, in the US it's, uh, it's, it's very important because things in their own country can look very different.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, it's so interesting to hear this perspective from you, and I think it validates [00:26:00] Alon of what. Uh, I've seen, and I think in, in our, my firm's work, like we've learned over the years where we can be successful with companies entering the US market and where we struggle and try to only, uh, gonna enter new engagements where we believe we can be very successful.

And I've found, You know, having, uh, a sales person in the us um, so You know, someone in person who can go to events and learn the market, whether that's someone coming from another country, it can be fractional salesperson, all of that is, is a big one.

Elena Gantvarg: Absolutely very important. We're also like, uh, saying to, uh, saying to our company is that, You know, like you have to find like a salesperson here that knows the market, that knows the industry, uh, et cetera. But I think that's, uh, uh, step number one is that the founders have to realize. First that things work differently over there if they realize that they can work with it.

You know, like if they go to a different country with an expectation that everything is gonna work [00:27:00] exactly the same way as, uh, as in their like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, local, uh, like, uh, local country and markets, uh, this is when, uh, things may go wrong.

Natalie Nathanson: Yes, yes, for sure. And I can say from a marketing standpoint, um, kind of that understanding of the US market and what it's gonna take, like the messaging. Varies quite significantly across different cultures, like how bold and kind of in your face does the messaging need to be in the US tends to be kind of on the higher end of that compared to some other, uh, parts of the world.

Um, the demand gen tactics, how sophisticated and kind of, uh, perfectly optimized you have to be as you're executing the different tactics because it's such a competitive market. So I think Alon of these kinds of things are, to your point, like the nuances that a founder needs to understand. What it's gonna take to be successful and then make sure they have the stomach for it.

Elena Gantvarg: Yeah, absolutely. And you're right about that because, because the competition very often is, uh, look, looks very different, uh, than in their own country. So I, I, I talked to some companies [00:28:00] in, in, uh, uh, let's say cybersecurity and in the Netherlands. Small country, You know, like there are good companies, but the competitions, You know, they, they can win deals so much easier.

And then they raise the money for, uh, expanding to the US and then I ask them the question, so who will you be competing against in the us? Like very often they don't know because, uh, uh, like the situation, their home market is very different.

Natalie Nathanson: Yes. Uh, I wanna talk a little bit about resourcing and You know, we're talking now about, I. Who do you need to have in place? Um, as well as what you've shared earlier, just around the, You know, smaller teams doing more. Um, so I think with changes to team sizes and, You know, startup expectations and economics and all these themes that we're talking about, there is Alon changing there.

So would love to hear from your perspective, like how do you advise founders to think about, um, about hiring in general, hiring in-house versus other [00:29:00] models. Um, what do, what do you see in, in the current landscape there?

Elena Gantvarg: You know, it's, it's uh, uh, um. I can give you like one answer, like, I advise this or I advise that because it all depends on, on, uh, uh, what the company's, uh, building and their, uh, their needs. Uh, uh, many of our companies have, uh, um, uh, teams, uh, overseas. You know, like programmers, uh, et cetera, not like, not in the US because it is expensive, right?

So, uh, if, uh, uh, if they can, uh, have, uh, um, uh, some of their people overseas, great. You know, especially if they know the culture and, uh, uh, yeah, why not? Um. Whether you have to outsource the whole product, uh, like to the third parties, like, I don't think so, You know, like other, otherwise, what is [00:30:00] your, uh, what, what, what is your mold and, and, uh, uh, uh, how, how much, uh, ownership of a product, uh, do you have?

But, uh, uh, but we do see that the companies, You know, like, uh, where they have like five. People in their marketing department, they can now have one person or two people. And ai, You know, and, and generally, uh, like based on what I see with other companies, AI can do many things now. Like, uh, I, I think at some point, uh, I will be replaceable too.

Natalie Nathanson: Alon changing in all a number of different functions.

Elena Gantvarg: Yes. Like, totally. So, so, uh, so yes, so, uh, it's, uh, uh, You know, uh, my, uh, my eldest son, he, he studies like robotics, uh, computer science, they don't, uh, write code from, uh, from [00:31:00] scratch. Uh, You know, so, and, and because of that, of course, the expectation of the companies to build faster. And scale faster. Uh, that, that, this has expectations that we already discussed previously, but, uh, uh, because you can do Alon more work with fewer people.

So you, you, you should hire only those people who you, who are absolutely essential. You know, like, do you need, uh, a marketing person? Uh, probably. Do you need five of them? Probably not.

Natalie Nathanson: Right. And to your point, making sure that it is an AI forward person, um, and that knows enough about all the different facets of marketing to be dangerous. I mean, when we work with. Startups sometimes. We are kind of the outsourced marketing department, and we've started talking about this, uh, kind of dynamic duo combo of like, you need the, the strategist and then you need the doer.

And both of them need to be AI enabled and kind of have, You know, [00:32:00] processes and frameworks for, uh, for working effectively. I'm curious when you're seeing on the marketing side specifically, like when you're seeing these smaller teams, what's kind of the, the profile or the, the roles that are, that are kept.

Elena Gantvarg: Uh, in, in startups,

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

Elena Gantvarg: it, You know, it really depends on the stage because, uh, uh, obviously startups don't hire many marketing people like when they're proceed.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. So I guess maybe a bit later when they would have otherwise grown a grown a small team.

Elena Gantvarg: I, I, I, I think that a couple of people, You know, 1, 1, 1 person who oversees a strategy and one person who can work with AI tools, You know, like something like that, uh, that, that makes sense. Uh, uh, depending of course, so this like size organization and what they're doing, but, but, uh, uh, generally I, I, I see that many people have, uh, uh, these days, You know, like a couple of people in their marketing teams.

Natalie Nathanson: Mm-hmm.

Elena Gantvarg: Yeah.

Natalie Nathanson: I'm curious, uh, You know, pure curiosity, but you [00:33:00] mentioned your son is studying robotics. Um, how, what was the thinking like, because I, I talked to Alon of, uh, folks with kids in, in high school, college, like entering the workforce. Um, what were the conversations to think about, like what is a, a good career based on all of the unknowns in the world?

Elena Gantvarg: I never have this kind of conversations with my children because I don't even want to take this kind of responsibility in this, uh, You know, like, um, constantly changing, uh, environment and world, uh, uh, to, to. To give you an example, uh, You know, like I, I grew up in, in, uh, uh, in Soviet Union. And, uh, uh, when I wanted to, uh, um, when I was thinking of like, what, what should I study?

Uh, my father, he wanted me to study foreign languages because he thought that that was the only way, uh, for me to [00:34:00] travel the world as an interpreter because the country was closed and nobody was allowed to go abroad. And look how much has changed since then. Then people, uh, were sending their kids to, uh, uh, to study computer science because they would set, uh, what they would say, You know, like if, if, if you study computer science, you are set for life.

Uh, uh. Then the same was, was, uh, uh, was, uh, finance. You know, like before the next crisis. So, uh, how can I even, uh, You know, give an advice to my kids what to study and what not to study? Like it's, uh, the only thing I can say is like, follow your heart and do your best. I believe that everybody who has a passion, uh, I, I, I think that those, those kids who found their passion in lives, they're very lucky because there will always be a place for, uh.

For people who are very passionate, passionate about what they do. Uh, but if you, uh, if you're very much [00:35:00] into music and your parents are telling you, You know, look, it's, it's gonna be very difficult to make a live in US music. So why don't you study computer science? I think this is a very wrong message, and fortunately in the US uh, uh, You know, kids can change their majors. Uh, You know, like if, if they like start studying something, they don't like it, they change it and they study something else. Generally they graduate from one thing and then they work in something else. And, and this is, You know, what I really like about, uh, uh. About the universities and general acceptance, uh, that like, you don't need to, uh, uh, to study, uh, I dunno, uh, like, uh, business and, uh, management, uh, in order to, to work in venture capital, for example, we had one colleague, she started, she had, she had, she had a law degree and, and the uh, uh, she has.

Like her, uh, she is a partner, [00:36:00] uh, of a venture capital fund now. So the sky's, the sky's the limit. I think that if, if the kids just do what they want, uh, do what they feel, feel passionate about, um, they will find their way.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I think that's a, a really nice message and I think, You know, it would be great if all of us had a crystal ball, but I think you're. Right, that, You know, passion does go a long way. And kind of the, the value of like interdisciplinary studies or taking like the example of your colleague with a, You know, law career kind of moving into investing, like it just gives you a different perspective.

That can be really powerful too.

Elena Gantvarg: Yes, and, and, and also like, I think that it's important to communicate to the kids that they're capable of. Changing the careers, You know, like if, uh, if necessary. Uh, because especially with this AI development, uh, I, I think no, nobody, nobody knows, uh, uh, uh, what jobs will be safe, [00:37:00] like five years from, uh, uh, from today, and which jobs, uh, are, are gonna die slowly.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, that's such an interesting topic and I could, uh, keep talking about this, but I also want to, uh, kinda talk a little bit more about Flint Capital and ask you a bit about, You know, the best way to engage, uh, with your firm. Talked about, uh, with your portfolio companies being kind of as hands-on as they, as they're looking for that support.

Uh, but for founders that are evaluating potential investors, I know it can be hard to kind of figure out, You know, what's the best fit. Um, so can you talk a little bit about kind of, You know, what, uh, what you recommend for that process?

Elena Gantvarg: So the majority, uh, of, uh, uh, of uh, s will tell you that they really hate cold outreach. Uh, You know, like some cold emails, uh, mass emails. Uh, well, I'm not an exception. I can't say that I like it. Uh, uh. I, [00:38:00] You know, like I'm more willing to, uh, to take a look, uh, at somebody who is reaching out, uh, out of nowhere, uh, but has a good story to tell.

I think I'm more willing to do that because, uh, uh, like I moved to this country and I didn't know anybody. I didn't know single person, You know, like you have to start somewhere. It doesn't mean that I will be, uh, reviewing all this cold emails, but if you have a good story to tell. Uh, uh, just remember that we all have a DHD, You know, like we, we spent like literally, uh, 30 seconds on, uh, uh, on, uh, uh, reviewing your email.

So you, you, you, You know, you, You know, don't make it long. I once received a pitch deck of like, of a a hundred pages. I kid you not.

Natalie Nathanson: Wow.

Elena Gantvarg: Yes. Uh, so, uh, tell a good story. Do your homework. You know, like, uh, if, if you are emailing me and you're looking for an investment in, in, uh, uh. [00:39:00] I dunno, like crypto space or hardware or something.

We don't, we don't do, we have, uh, our own profile. You can, uh, go on our website. Generally, don't waste your time on approaching every VC that you can find. Uh, so, uh, do your homework and if you think that we're a good fit, just shoot an email. Uh, and, uh, a short one, uh, you can reach me at uh, uh, eg@flintcap.com.

That's my email address. You can just all find me on LinkedIn. Uh, send me a message, a short one like I can stress.

Natalie Nathanson: A

Elena Gantvarg: Well, yeah, short one. I'll say it a few more times, like a short one. Just, You know, like, I, I don't, uh, I, I never did this math. Like I, I, I never tried to calculate how many, uh, cold messages am I getting every day, uh, uh, on LinkedIn and my email [00:40:00] and, uh, uh, I sometimes I feel bad to be, because I.

Can't possibly respond to all of them. I cannot, I can't even respond to half of them. So try to get like, uh, whether you are reaching out to us or to somebody else, try to, to, uh, uh, uh, to be short and, uh, uh, but to the point and, and, uh, um, so that, You know, like once we read your, uh, your, uh, message, we'll feel like continuous conversation, uh.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And I know we don't have too much time left, but a couple more questions for you. One is, You know, we're talking about, uh, about your firm. I'd love to hear, You know, your story. How did you get into investing?

Elena Gantvarg: I know that many people dream about getting into vc, uh, uh, You know, like world, uh, and investing. Uh, my story is very different, uh, and, uh, not a sexy one. So, uh, [00:41:00] I, uh, I worked, uh, uh, for, uh, big corporations for many years, uh, in different countries. And, uh, um. Uh, at some point I re relocated to the US and, uh, didn't work for, for a few years because I didn't have my working permit.

Uh, once, uh, it was arranged and I started looking for employment, I had a gap in my, I may look, this, this is a very standard, uh, through but not sexist story. Uh, and, uh, I was a foreigner. Uh, so, um. People didn't, uh, didn't, many people didn't understand my, uh, background. Um, but, uh, uh, fortunately, You know, like I was introduced to Sergey GRI of our partner, uh, at Flint.

Uh, Flint was very new at that time. And, uh, they were looking for some help. Uh, somebody who would help, uh, to do some due diligence. Uh, analyze the [00:42:00] companies I worked for, for many years in management consulting before that. And, uh, uh, the skillset is, um, uh, obviously not the same, but very similar because both with management consulting and uh, uh, um, You know, like due diligence for many startup companies, you need to have the ability to get to know with new technologies and markets, uh, within a very short period of time.

So, uh, yeah, so I was, uh, hired at the time and, and uh, uh, I think as of today, Flint has been the employer that I worked like it's, it's the longest I have ever worked for. Uh, for one company. So even so, I was totally unfamiliar with, uh, uh, with this world. Uh, I, I love it. I love working with startups. I love, uh, evaluating the new technologies.

I love communicating with people, uh, uh, who are dreaming of changing the [00:43:00] world. And every day looks very different from, uh, uh, uh, like, uh, today, today is not the same as yesterday. Tomorrow is gonna be very different too. And, uh, I, I, I, yeah, I, I love my job.

Natalie Nathanson: Well, I love hearing that and I think I share that enthusiasm for working with startups. There's such a great energy, uh, in working with those companies and such a big impact that you can have. And I think you just did a great job too, bringing this full circle, uh, from what we were talking about earlier of Right, being able to take our career kinda skills and expertise and applying it, uh, in new places.

So.

Elena Gantvarg: Exactly. Yeah.

Natalie Nathanson: Uh, I wanna ask you one closing question and uh, maybe a bit more introspective, but what would you say is the best piece of advice that you've been given in your career that's really stuck with you?

Elena Gantvarg: Let, let, let me share maybe a little bit more like a per personal story. I'm not sure that's as much about my career, but, uh, uh, when I worked, uh, in the Netherlands, uh, I worked at, uh, um, for [00:44:00] KPN, uh, research at the time. KPN is a major telco provider, uh, in the Netherlands, and I had a great colic, uh, uh, Alma and uh, um.

Unfortunately, uh, he was diagnosed with, uh, uh, with cancer and I remember visiting him, uh, literally a few days before he died. And, uh, uh, when we met. You know, what is it, what is it that you can talk about when, when You know that the person is going to die, like very soon. But he made that very easy for me.

So he was asking about the company, he was asking about the work. Uh, he was asking what I like, what, uh, what I, uh, what I'm doing. And uh, and I said to him like, yes, I like the work, but, uh, I'm like, I hate the way I do things. I just hate it because I am, uh. I'm a last minute person and I postpone everything.

[00:45:00] And, uh, uh, You know, sometimes I work at night just because I didn't start the project, project on time. And, and, and, uh, uh, uh, so as, as I was saying this, he asked me, he said like, okay, so you, uh, immigrated to the Netherlands and you studied here. You did your master's degree here. Like, uh, uh, the grades were good, right?

Right. And, uh, now you're working for a good company and, uh, everybody's happy with the work you're doing, right? Right. And, and, uh, uh, so the reports you are writing, like they delivered on time, like no delays, right? And he said, so why are you still like, fighting yourself? You know, like, why do you make it so difficult?

And why, why don't you just accept. Your ways, and you can always improve them, but why don't you just accept that? I cannot say that, um, uh, that I, I've become way more forgiving, uh, to [00:46:00] myself, uh, these days. But, but it stuck with me, You know, like when, um. If you get things done, You know, just at least be, uh, and, and it's, it's, it's more than just a career advice, You know, like it can help you with your career.

It can help you outside of your career. Uh, just, uh, embrace, uh, your ways. You can always try to improve and don't fight yourself. Don't make it more difficult for yourself.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I love that advice. That gave me goosebumps. As you were talking, because I think it's such a powerful message and what a gift to get from a friend and colleague, uh, especially knowing what he was going through.

Elena Gantvarg: Yeah,

Natalie Nathanson: thank you for sharing that. Uh, as we wrap up today's conversation, I know you did share your contact information earlier, but if people wanna get in touch with you or Flint Capital, can you show the best way to do that again?

Elena Gantvarg: absolutely. So my email address is, uh, EG. At Flint cab.com. My name is [00:47:00] Iana Gant. Work. You can find me on LinkedIn. LinkedIn, and you can send me a message there. And of course we have a website, flint cab.com, and you can find all the information about us there as well.

Natalie Nathanson: Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. I really loved hearing so much of, uh, what you shared and what we talked about today. Talking about what strong Go-to-market looks like in today's environment and some of the, the. Differences in different sectors and some of those shifts, uh, in expectations, uh, on a, on a startup venture.

So, uh, so many valuable insights here, I think for any leader navigating growth in today's climate.

Elena Gantvarg: Thank you so much, Natalie. I think I enjoyed the conversation and thank you so much for having me here today.

Natalie Nathanson: Completely. My pleasure. Uh, so thank you and thank you too. To everyone that's listening. If today's conversation sparked something for you, and I am sure that it did, please pass this along to another founder or CEO in your network. We know that these are the kinds of conversations [00:48:00] that really help us scale smarter, build stronger, and create more t.

Ventures and leadership for ourselves. So thank you again, Elena, and this has been another amazing conversation on Shift and Thrive. I'll see you next time.

That's a wrap for this week's episode. For show notes and more visit Shift and thrive podcast.com. A special thank you to our sponsor, magnitude Consulting, bringing you the thinking power of a growth consultancy and the getting it done Power of a full service marketing agency to help B2B companies fuel their growth.

For more information on magnitude and to get your complimentary transformation readiness assessment, visit magnitude consulting.com/. Get ready. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.