Shift & Thrive: CEO Insights on Driving Change

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Natalie Nathanson: I am very excited to speak with today's guest. He is a distinguished leader in industrial automation who brings over 30 years of industry experience and is known for leading major business transformations on both the buyer and supplier side of automation, from driving billions in purchasing a General Motors.

To overseeing global automation deployments at Amazon, he [00:01:00] successfully scaled multiple businesses, which we'll talk about today, and he joined the board of his current firm, Aita in early 2024. And after a brief, I would say maybe failed retirement, was asked to take on the role of CEO, which he did earlier this year.

The company delivers advanced robotics and automation systems with the focus on warehousing and logistics, and helps manufacturers modernize faster and competes smarter in today's economy. Craig Ulrich, welcome to the show.

Craig Ulrich: thank you. Nice to be here.

Natalie Nathanson: very glad to have you. And Craig, when we had previously spoke, we had talked about, uh, some of the orgs that you had joined, um, including one in particular, uh, where you grew warehousing automation from just a few million in revenue up to 80 million, which is, uh, of course a huge, uh, shift and a tremendous accomplishment.

So I'd love if you can take us inside that

transformation.[00:02:00]

And just dig into, you know, how did you do that? What lessons did you carry forward from that experience that others, uh, would benefit from hearing? And maybe let's start first by talking about, you know, what helped set you up for success, uh, when you were coming into that role.

Craig Ulrich: Yeah. Yeah.

Perfect. So I

think, um, you know, that was with JR Automation, um, the, the, uh, particular instance of, uh, driving transformation, but I think I went through that once before that as well, um, with a company called EIS Automation.

and, and JR purchased

EIS in 2018. Uh, I joined EIS in 2013, and, uh, and the first.

Transformation. I think w

was where

I learned the most was, was going into eis. Um, they were small automation. Um, they were looking for growing their business two times, right? They wanted to double their size and, and really they were looking to sell, the owners were looking to, to sell out to a, to a larger automation company, which [00:03:00] they, which they ultimately did.

And I helped them to, to grow that business,

you know, from

probably 20 million to about 40 million. Um, I was

one

of the, the cogs in

there. But,

but really I, you know, there, in order to grow, we, we, um, we really needed to start

to look at

other areas, um, within automation and start to think about how do we, how do we provide our.

Automation, uh, in, into those areas. And, and we weren't, we didn't really have any experience with it. And, and that's, um, while it sounds easy, you know, oh

yeah, just pick

a, pick a area to go

work in. But, but there's

a lot of effort that has to go into

that. You, you

need some experience.

Even, even

though all automation is sort of similar, it doesn't matter what.

What vertical you're working in,

whether you're

working in warehousing or automotive or transportation or some other industry, they're, they're similar. All the, all the, um, concepts are similar for, for moving parts

and [00:04:00] assembling

parts, but, um, but people want

you to

have experience in their.

In her, uh,

vertical.

So first thing is, is

go find

some experienced people. Right? You, you, while I felt like I had that experience, I, I wanted

to have salespeople that, that were

very comfortable in that, in that space and, and also some application engineers that, that could actually do a nice job with, with customers and, and quote, well, so, you know, really grew.

Um, an organization, um, that was able to do, uh, powertrain and, and, uh, a lot of plastics, uh, type of, of work. Um,

a lot

of plastics joining

and plastics

cutting and

things like

that. And, um,

and, and

really no experience at all in, in that field. But it looked like it was a, a great place to be a, a,

great

space, uh, looked like we could, we could grow the company and we did.

we

we probably in, I, there were two divisions in ais. Mine was very small. Um, 5 million of

[00:05:00] 20, but we grew that five

to about 16 million, um, to, so, you know, tripled, tripled its size,

which was, which

was pretty, pretty good.

and

and it really, it, it taught me how to go in and, and talk to customers

that.

Really, you

know, they're looking for experience.

Um, how do you, how do you show that experience when you don't have any, right? And, Uh, and so, it, it

was

good.

So then, you know, that kind of helped

me as JR purchased,

um.

um. Thesis. They

were also doing work in the warehouse automation space, which, which we really didn't have a lot of experience with, but, um, but again, you know, being able to go in and confidently talk

with

these people and, and also hire the right people.

um, that understood the

business. Right. So we, we hired, we called him a chief engineer, but he was really highly respected within the industry. [00:06:00] We brought him in. Um, and, and then it was just hard work, right? Just going and meeting with people from UPS

and FedEx and Amazon and

Walmart and, you know, all these companies and, and really just nose to the grindstone.

Um.

Working with them,

showing them what we're capable of, getting small jobs, then showing those off to everyone else. Hey, look, we do have this experience. You know, we, we did these three, four small jobs and, and it, the momentum, it's like a flywheel. Once it starts it's just keeps going. Right? And, and we grew, we grew that.

I think when I started there, uh, 2018, we were probably doing about 2 million in warehouse automation And by 2020. 2021. We were, we were doing probably 80 million in, in warehouse automation, robotics. So it, it was quite, quite the, uh, uh, expansion in, in, uh, in,[00:07:00]

uh,

JR.

Natalie Nathanson: It's very impressive. Um, I wanna take maybe a few steps back because it sounds like, you know, multiple times you were entering kind of new market segments that you hadn't been operating in before. Uh, can you talk a little bit about like how do you go about choosing which market segments?

Craig Ulrich: actually

good. We're

looking at data, we're looking at automation

data, um, from

company. At that time it was called RIA.

Now it's called a three, but a three comes out with, with just tons

of data

every year on, on where markets are expanding and what

they're doing.

The reason we picked Powertrain at first was a lot of nine and 10 speed transmissions were being developed. They really needed to get. Fuel standards. Um, EVs were, were kind of, nobody was even talking about EVs in 20 13, 20 14.

Um, they were talking about how are we gonna get more out of what we have out of four cylinder engines, out of [00:08:00] nine speed and 10

speed transmissions?

And so we did a lot of,

We

really went after a lot of the nine speed, 10 speed transmission, um, evolution that was, uh, taking place at that time. So. Um, that, that was that.

And, and just looking at data, right? How, where are we gonna attack? What markets do

we wanna attack?

That looked really good at that time. Um,

That later

spurred

EVs.

I, I, I won't say that I was a big portion of, of jr's expansion into EVs. They had a lot of people that were doing that, but certainly, um.

you know, They, they Jr attacked EVs in the same way as we attacked nine speed and 10 speed transmissions and, and, um, higher uh, uh, four cylinders. But, and then on the plastic side, really, uh, we were looking at there are just tons of plastic inside of a, inside of a vehicle, right? And, and so we, I was located

in Detroit,

so that was main, our main

area. But if

you look

at [00:09:00] plastic in general.

It's everywhere. And, and there's a, there's a lot of automation, there's a lot of, um, joining, uh, methods for, for plastic. There's a lot

of,

um, a lot of different. Products out there that, that actually get, you

know, a

little bit of automation that aren't automotive. And so we were trying

to think

we were a hundred percent automotive. How could we expand outside of automotive? How could we, how could we expand the business? And, and it seemed like getting into that plastics first because we already had relationships within automotive. Um, we were able to, to talk to a couple different automotive, uh, companies and, and get work within those automotive companies in, in the plastic joining area.

Um, but then later, um, a able to try

to expand

outside of automotive with other companies that were, that were doing work with plastic. Um, so that was eis, uh, in, in [00:10:00] JR. Um, you know, warehouse automation, if, if,

you look at,

at the number of people

that are in a warehouse, it is

astronomical. And, um, I, I did do a short stint

between ESIS

and jr.

I did

a

a year and a half at Amazon. And, uh, the amount of turnover at at Amazon is incredible. Um, it, they probably turnover. There's probably. A couple thousand people working in an in an Amazon

warehouse.

Uh, fulfillment center and, and they probably turn that over every three years. So, you know, they're turning

over

3000 people.

They're hiring

constantly. People are

quitting constantly. Uh, and, and it's true for everybody. I, I don't mean to pick on Amazon. Um, and it, it's not because it's, it's a great company, but, but there are,

you can go

to any warehouse and,

and,

um. It's hard work. It's hard backbreaking where you're picking things [00:11:00] up all day long, putting them down.

Nobody, no human being should pick things up and put them down. It, it really, that should be a robotic, uh, application. And so, um, you know, just trying to.

Every

warehouse out there

was trying

to figure out how do we, how do we automate and, and, um, eliminate some of

these backbreaking

jobs and, and not have to have so much turnover.

So that was a pretty easy one to, to go after. Um, and, and it, it continues. I, I think warehouse automation is probably the biggest area for, uh, growth in, in automation. Um. Today even, you know, but 2018 we started, but, but even today, I think that's probably where most of the growth in, in automation is, is going to take place.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I mean, you touched on a lot of the areas that, you know, in my marketing firm when we're working with clients and talking executives through. Uh, [00:12:00] kind of choosing new market segments to expand into, like, there is a method to the madness. Uh, it's not just gut. There's like the art

and

Craig Ulrich: Oh, no.

Looking at data, lots of data. A a three is a great source of that data. But, But, you know, millions of other areas to,

to look

at

as well,

Right? We

were looking

at even just reading Forbes Magazine and

things like that, right?

You're gonna pick up a lot of, of, uh, information. So you're studying all the time where, where do we need to be functioning and how do we

need to

function in that area?

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Right. The market trends, the market size, like you talked about some adjacencies. To kind of what you were already doing, which obviously makes it a bit easier, making sure you can serve them profitably. So all this kind of analysis and then sounds like that, uh, Bo very well for you.

Craig Ulrich: Yes, for sure.

Natalie Nathanson: curious to hear a bit more about your, your customers and podcast talks a lot about transformation. We've talked about some of the company [00:13:00] transformations that you've led. Can you talk about the biggest transformations or, um, that your customers are undergoing and, and what's most important, uh, to understand or kind of work with

them through that?

Craig Ulrich: I mean, from the automotive perspective, the biggest transformation we see was going to ev and, and then, you know,

what,

what that did to companies. And then the fact that

they had to pull

back. Uh, maybe they went a little too early. Uh, I, I think, uh, maybe that's a lesson of,

of

really maybe studying a little bit more and understanding.

Certainly infrastructure was a big deal, um, for, for why

EVs

didn't take off. So maybe, maybe as you're going down those paths you need to be looking at at, um. You know, is, are all the [00:14:00] right things going to be in place for this transformation to take place? And, uh,

and I,

you know, eventually we're probably all gonna be electric cars eventually, but,

but you had

a whole infrastructure built around gasoline and, you know,

refineries

and oil and all the things that were already in place.

And then the,

and then

to replace that,

um. And to do it quickly, as

quickly as, as, you know, everybody wanted that to happen was probably a, a, a pipe dream. Um, to be able to, to be able to make that kind of transformation in

that kind of speed. I think

the transformation's gonna happen, but, but certainly not at that speed.

And I think that, you know, it certainly hurt some of our customers, um, to, to.

Put

all that money into that, into that ability to, to change and then, and [00:15:00] then find out, oh boy,

PE people really don't want

these things

as much

as we thought they were gonna want 'em. Um, and, and mainly I think because of the lack of infrastructure out there.

So,

um, yeah, that, that would be.

Maybe one of

the bigger transformations. I, I think the transformation in warehousing to go to automation.

Um.

Isn't happening as fast as I thought

that would

happen.

You

know, there, there's, there are, there's,

there are

companies out there that are doing, um, you know, driverless fork trucks and, uh, you go into a warehouse and there's hundreds of fork trucks driving around.

And, and, it, and it

can be

dangerous, um, because people. People are thinking about other things during the day, right? They're, they're not just thinking about work, they're thinking about their kids, or they're, they're thinking about their parents or they're thinking there's other thoughts that are going through their brain and they lose focus [00:16:00] periodically.

And, and that's when accidents happen. And there's some really bad accidents that that occur with fork trucks and, and so like. In 20 17, 20 18, we started to put in some driverless fork trucks into Amazon and, and I really thought that was gonna be, I thought that that industry would completely change with driverless fork trucks,

but yet.

It hasn't. They like that transformation isn't occurring. I think because R-O-I-I-I, you know, it's,

you already

own this whole fleet of fork trucks and, and then you have to, you, you,

have people that

are already driving those fork trucks. So, so replacing them with driverless fork trucks where you have to buy those now and, and,

you already

bought fork trucks.

Um.

I, I think that's the reason why that transformation's not taking place. But,

um,

but I, I would've thought

that would've

happened way faster [00:17:00] in, in that, in that space.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, well, I think we see that in other places like the tech, uh, investor. Mark Andreessen says, um, you know, being too early is the same as being wrong.

Um,

and right. It's unfortunate because you're a visionary. You might see things that others don't see yet. Uh, but it's kinda hard to build a business around that.

And the change management, both, you know, your internal team, like you talked about the, the infrastructure. Um, there's just the, the customers, there's just so many different, uh, kind of

components to at a right place at

the right

time.

Craig Ulrich: Yeah, There really are. It, it,

it's, um, I, again, it's, it's going to happen. That whole space is gonna get automated, but, uh, um. But it, it is just taking way longer than I expected.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

Yeah.

[00:18:00]

Craig Ulrich:

Natalie Nathanson: Uh, Craig, I wanna shift gears a bit and, uh, talk a little bit more about you as the leader. Uh, when we had previously spoken, you described yourself as a servant leader. So I'd love to hear, um, you know, how that perspective

formed for you and just kinda how that shows up in your day-to-day.

Craig Ulrich: Yeah, I, I mean it, those things form early in your life,

Right.

And, and as early on, I've worked for leaders that, that were very, um, [00:19:00] supportive, always looking to, to.

They wanted

you to go off and do the work yourself. Right? But, but they were always saying, how can I help and where can I help? And is there roadblocks that I can knock down for you?

And, and they did those things right, and, and it made, it made me really, really successful, which made them very successful. And that's the way I look at it. My success isn't about me. My success is about the people that work for me, if they're all successful. Then I'm successful. I, I don't need to, to go off and do things

on my

own.

I need

my team to go off and, and do these things for me. And so I need to make them successful. I, and that's where the servant leadership comes in, where, you know, I always look at a,

at an

organization as a, you know, most org charts look like this,

right? CEO on

top, and everybody down below. I

think of it as

I'm at the bottom.

My, my job

is to

support all these

people that are

above me. and,

same thing. I, mean, I preach it[00:20:00]

with my,

team

as well, right? So the whole C-suite, your job is to support everybody above you because that's how we're gonna be successful as an organization. Not, because I have the smartest.

C-suite and, I'm the smartest guy. I'm far from the smartest guy. I think what makes me smart is, go support those people. Go make them, go, make them successful, and then you'll be

successful.

Natalie Nathanson: Uh,

curious to hear, what do you do when there's a leader or manager in your org that kind of doesn't ascribe to that and either kind of has the, the ego that wants to make themselves look good isn't good at promoting their own team? Like, do you find they're ultimately just not a

fit for your organization or, and can you coach and

Craig Ulrich: I think there's a lot of coaching and teaching and, you know, I think you, you have to find certain instances and, and talk through and say, you know, okay, you handled it that way. Can you think of a

different way

that you could have

handled that [00:21:00] situation?

And, and so you, you make sure that like, right at the situation that you're doing the coaching and teaching and,

um, and

I, I think people, you know, I, I mentioned, um, you know, early on being

shaped by that.

I think people will

look at you also see your style and, and kind

of copy

your

style. I,

I've had people that, that.

Ha that

don't do that. Um,

usually I

coach and teach through it though I'm not, I don't, I'm not a big, uh, um, I, I always think you can shape people and, and so I'm not a big fire guy

where,

where I'm gonna fire people because they, they just don't fit the mold. Um, but, but I have, I have done that too because they don't fit the mold so.

Um, you know, it, it, it, but I, I would always take the approach first of, of coach, teach, mentor, and, uh, and try to try [00:22:00] to move somebody, you know, towards that.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, for sure. I mean, as you were talking, you're making me think of some of the, uh, kind of best bosses I had, uh, earlier in my career. And there was one, uh, woman that, you know, we got. To a trade show, something hadn't been prepared that needed to. And she was like, all right, let's stuff, bags, uh, you know, stuff, the bags we needed for the trade show.

And just that,

um, that mindset of like we're all in it together,

Um,

really like had such an impact on

me and something I've

really carried forward. So I totally agree.

Um.

Craig Ulrich: people I'll sweep the floors Now, typically they'll say, no, no, no, no.

I got it. I'll make

sure it's

all clean.

You

know, but, but if I, if that's what it takes, I'll go, I'll go sweep the floors, if that's what it takes to, to make the team successful. What whatever they need. That, that's, that's really my, my thought process. Nothing's beneath me. I'm, I, I came up through

the ranks.

I did work and I can still do work.

Natalie Nathanson: Curious if you ever felt like [00:23:00] kind of friction between, you talked about making the team successful, um, but like friction between that and what the business needs.

So if like your focus needs to be elsewhere based on strategic priorities, uh, but the team needs you in other areas, um, kind of, I guess any ways where like servant leadership and helping

too much is actually a detriment, and how do you

Craig Ulrich: Well. I, I've, I've had, I've had people working

for me that

think that

yes, sometimes I'm too,

I'm too hands on. I get too much down in the weeds. And I, and I, and I'm, I'm, you know, working with

the team too

frequently. I, I've, I've, I've had, I've had some of that feedback. I always say, doesn't matter, that's what I'm gonna do.

Right. Uh, it, it, it's, it's just what I do. But, uh, um, you know, ha has there been a time where a team needed help and I couldn't help them? Um.

I'm sure many

times I'm sure you could, you, there's only so many priorities that you can make, right? [00:24:00] So, you know, that's where you, you delegate out and, and ask, you know, others to get engaged.

At that point, I might, I might delegate to, to my CCO or my COO or my HR VP depending on what the problem is and say, Hey, can you go, go help that team, um, get, get on track. Um, and I, I. I

do that a lot.

I,

I

certainly delegate out

that,

those responsibilities as well.

Natalie Nathanson: for sure. I'm curious to hear if there are any changes that you had to kind of drive that you felt kind of

Fearful of or that took more courage than, than average for you as a leader? And if so, kind of how did you push through that or work through that

Craig Ulrich: that's a interesting one. I mean, there's lots of things I've been fearful

of. Um, you know, I, Samuel

Clemens, mark Twain, he has a pretty cool saying that, uh, if it's your job to eat a [00:25:00] frog, I suggest you eat it first thing in

the morning.

If it's your job to eat two frogs, then start with the biggest one, right? And so I think I use that saying all the time. Um, just go. Do it right. Don't put it off. Don't just go do it.

And, and

so there's been lots of times, there's lots of things I don't like. Um, it's a tough business, the automation business lot.

You're, you're trying to, you're trying to please a customer, but you're also trying to make money at the same time. Um, and, and those two things sometimes get in the way of each other. And, uh, and so there's lots of times when I. There's things I don't wanna do, but I force myself to do them, um, because it's

my job

to eat a frog and, and so, so I, I, I preach that to my people as well.

Uh, so

yeah, I,

I don't, I, I would [00:26:00] say typically I take on every problem that comes at me, though.

Natalie Nathanson: Yep. I do love

the, the

eat the Frog. I learned that from a colleague a few years ago, and I, I often think about that and it is, you know, if you, if you start your day by eating the frog, the rest of the day feels that much more,

uh, more fruitful.

Craig Ulrich: Yeah.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, there's a quote. Um, we used to have this as a poster up in our old office, and I recently came across it again.

Um, that's, you know, keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others. Um, and I think there's elements of that that I like, and then there's elements that just don't always quite sit

right with me. I think there's maybe a balance of

needing

to,

Craig Ulrich: I think so. I talk about

Natalie Nathanson: to share your because.

and, and

work through that with your

leaders. Yeah, I think you want feedback on, on, on it,

Craig Ulrich: Right. You're okay. Here's the five things that could go wrong. And, you know, what do you think if, if this happens, what do you think we should do?

If this happens, what do you think we should do? You know, you, you gotta have plans, [00:27:00] right? So, so I, I mean, There again, that it's fear. That doesn't mean you're not going to go fix it, you know, but, but you certainly want to understand all the pitfalls and then you wanna, you wanna kind of have plans for, for all those different things that could happen.

Right? And, and so, um, yeah, I think the best thing you can do is talk about, about issues. Um.

don't,

I, I, I,

gotta believe that

leads to an ulcer

If you,

if.

Natalie Nathanson: I. And all of that in forever.

Yeah.

Well, and I think especially in times like this

where there's

so much changing so quickly,

nobody as a leader should be pretending like they have all the answers.

Right. So it's really about how do you productively work through that

with your, with

Craig Ulrich: That's why

you have a

team working for you. Right. You want that team to weigh in on, everything.

Natalie Nathanson: And, you know, speaking of, uh, changes going on these days, um, would love to talk a little [00:28:00] bit about AI because I know it is, uh, reshaping every industry right now. And in automation, has a lot of promise, maybe has some limitations. Um, would love to hear just how that's, uh, impacting your organization, whether generative AI or just more

broadly.

Craig Ulrich: I, you know, ai, um, from a vision perspective, we've been using AI and, and learning methods probably ever since I Join Amazon, that's when I first learned about,

about

how AI can be used with,

so that's like

2017.

Um, so, uh.

We,

I, I've been, we've been using it automation in, at least from a vision perspective. We have been, we have been using it, uh, and, and allowing the system to learn from what it has done, um, on previous,

uh.

You know, previous work that it's doing. So, [00:29:00] uh, a

lot of

it on pick and place, right? And, and it's, it, it,

there's learn, there's

some learning capabilities in there.

So, so in that respect, we have been using ai, um, for quite some time in the automation industry. Now there's, there's all kinds of promise out there for can, can robots come up to speed faster, um, using ai. Um, probably, um,

but I

haven't really. Seen, I mean, there's probably 10 companies. I just had a company present to me on it.

Um, there's, there's, there's, there's promise there, but it, it, it's gonna take a little bit of time, um, uh, for, for that to occur.

I think

that there's some generative, um, properties for designs for electrical design and mechanical design where we could use

AI

to help with, with [00:30:00] the. Grunt work of, of engineering.

Um, there's definitely work to be done there. Um, and, and here again, I, I would say I've seen it, I've, I've actually used it in electrical design. Um, where, where I've, I've.

I

wouldn't call it ai, but you, you could fill out a, a form and from that

form, the

engineering designs get developed and built. Um, there's still human input there.

And, and even in with, even with ai, there's input, right? Hey, what do you think about this, right? When you're using grok or something. Right. And,

and then

grok answers it. So there's always some human input and it's not like it's thinking for you. You have to have a

little bit of

thought there on, on it. So, um, so I think on the mechanical design, electrical design, you're gonna see more and

more, um,

of it being used and, and maybe just taking out some of the grunt [00:31:00] work.

Um, that's, that's there,

uh,

probably on today. There's checkers that, that, you know, you would, you would do a mechanical design and then you would send it to, to a checker and the checker would make sure everything is okay. Well, that could

probably be done with

ai, um, over time. So yes, I think AI is going to play a huge part.

Um, I

think we're already using

it, uh, quite a bit.

Um.

But it, it's, it's, it's still in its infancy as well, so it, I I, I, I think, ask me that question five years from now and, and I think it, it's gonna be, heck, we do it in everything, everything that we do, we, we use AI somehow. Um, but, but not today yet.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yep.

Um,

you know, wanted to, uh, maybe hear a little bit about your, what I called in the introduction, uh, [00:32:00] failed retirement, uh, where you told me you, you

retired and then were asked to come back in and, uh, and

took on

what

sounds

Craig Ulrich: Yeah, they didn't ask. Actually, I volunteered.

Natalie Nathanson: Okay.

Craig Ulrich: They were, they were gonna go out on a search

for, for,

um, for, a

CEO.

Uh, and, uh. Um, again, I, I, the business is hard. It's, it's, it really is. It's a, it's a, it's a,

it's a tough industry and, uh, and finding people that really have, um, the experience of the industry but also can lead a company at the same time is, it's hard.

to

find those types of people, right. We had, we had a great leader, but he didn't understand the industry real well.

And, and so, you know, finding somebody that understands the industry super well and can, and can, um, lead the

company, Uh. Tough and so, and so. I volunteered [00:33:00] and, uh, um, so far so good.

Uh, um,

certainly I, I liked retirement.

It was, it was nice

and, and I always had a goal from, from a young, from a young age. I. It was a big saver and, and I always had this school of, of retiring early. Um, but, but also, you know, you, you, after coming out and then sitting on the board and, and you're kind of like, man, if

I could

just get in

there a

little deeper, I,

I could, I could

help so much more. Right. But you're on the board of directors.

You're not the CEO, you're not the CFO. You're, so you can

give.

Advice and you can, you know, say, did you look at this or try this? Or, um, but, but,

at the end of the day, you're,

you're not really running the company. So, um. So, yeah, I think, uh, after retiring and then,

and then

watching from the sides and trying to give advice and help, it was like, ah, I really [00:34:00] like,

I

like doing it too.

So,

um,

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, Sounds like you couldn't

help yourself. Had to, had to get back in there. Um, and I know that retirement wasn't very long, but are there any like perspective shifts that you have?

Had, uh,

just

kind of coming back in.

Craig Ulrich: Yeah. Uh, yeah. I mean, it.

And again, there, there's a, there's a lot of communication, a lot of talking

with customers. A

lot of,

you

know, it just the fact that I hadn't done that for a year and a half. I, I was retired for a year and a half almost.

Um. Yeah, that I was

rusty. I was rusty. Uh. To, to do that. So I was rusty about eating the frog. I had to figure that outta my archives. Um, and, and so, uh, yeah, I think, I think that definitely, uh, um, very, very quickly you, you realize, um.[00:35:00]

The, the

things that you,

that

kind of drove you to retirement, you, you say, Hmm, wow. Those, those things still exist, so you still gotta go tackle

'em every day,

you know?

And,

uh, yeah. Yeah.

So

it,

it,

it's, um. Yeah, it, it, was kind of a good transition. Um, how many people can say they, they retired for a year and a half and got to go off and do a bunch of fun stuff and travel over the world and all those types

of things

for a short period of time, and then go back to work again.

And I think everybody would love

to do

that. I think people in, in their forties and thirties would love to do that.

Take a year off and, and go. Enjoy yourself and then come back to work. So, and, and the fact that I could do it in a, in a really high level, at a really high level. I was, I was a CEO, I retired and then I came back as a CEO.

That, that's pretty, it, it, it was really quite

nice.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like a great [00:36:00] experience.

Uh,

I'm curious, uh, to learn a bit more

about

you kind of in, in years past. Can you talk a little bit about, uh, kind of your childhood and, um, you know, how that shaped kind of

where ultimately you, uh, you built your career?

Craig Ulrich: Wow. Childhood. I, I can't even remember

anymore. That's

a long time ago. But, uh,

um, yeah, I think, uh, you know, big sports, not when I was a kid. And, and I think competition was always a big deal for me. And, and so, um, you know.

That

competition

and competing and

trying to be a winner all the time was kind of useful.

Um,

uh, not,

not that I was really

a great

athlete or anything like that. I was actually a, a, a very average.

Um,

but, but the, the

desire

to win and all those types

of things were

always certainly there. So I think, um, that was kind of useful, uh, in, [00:37:00] in, um. In, in my success,

um,

as an adult was, I wanna win.

I

wanna go win.

Uh, ever everything I do, I wanna win. So I, you know, maybe, maybe if, if you play games, um, as a, as

a kid, but that those, even

that you wanna win, right? It's game. You're trying to win the game. So, um, I think that the, those maybe. Those types of desires. They don't, they don't go away. They, you, you sort of flame them and grow them as a kid and then, and then they, they help, um, they help as an, as an adult.

Natalie Nathanson: Right, right. Kind of transfer that competitive spirit into kinda winning in business. Right.

Craig Ulrich: Yeah.

Yeah.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Um, well, Craig, I'd love to maybe wrap up our conversation with a bit of a more, uh, introspective question for you and, uh, curious, you know, knowing what you know now, if you were sitting in a room with your younger self [00:38:00] in your first ever leadership role, is there any advice you would give yourself?

Craig Ulrich: All

the advice that I've already been talking about, right? Eat the, eat the frog. Uh, I mean all those things you wish you, you knew those immediately, right? Um, it takes time to, to build, to build, you know who you are. So, um. Uh, geez. What, what would I tell my younger self? Be pa I think be patient. I like one thing, one item that I tell everybody that, you know, how do you get

to CEO?

How do you get from being a, just a, an engineer that got hired out of college at 22 and then

become a

CEO? And, and really,

I, I.

And, and this maybe I'm an anomaly, I don't know. But, but I think, um, just go do your best every day. Go work hard every single day. Don't worry about about whether you're gonna get promoted or not.

Um, but when things come up. Then, [00:39:00] then you jump on it, right? When, when somebody offers you something, you don't turn it down. You, you go say, yeah, this is a great learning opportunity for me and, and I, and go do it. And, and, um.

I

think

even that,

I, I can't say that I would've taught myself that because I did that.

I, I think

that's how I made it through my, my career is,

is I

worked really hard every day trying to do the best I could. And when, when somebody offered me, uh, uh, spot to go

do it, I

never. Even thought about it, it was like, that's such an honor that you're asking me to take on this next responsibility.

And, and so I just took it on and, um, and it just, just helped

me grow

my career, I think tremendously.

So,

um.

Yeah,

it,

it may, I did that.

So I can't say I would tell my younger self that, but I would tell any

young

person, go work hard. Just go, don't

worry about

getting promoted. And [00:40:00] if, if that's what you're worried about getting promoted, then you're, you're worried about the wrong stuff.

Worry about the, the past that you have to get done.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah,

it's amazing how sometimes those things, uh, at the time and speaking. From my experience was, you know, chasing one, uh, one promotion and more responsibilities on the title. And obviously as an entrepreneur, it's been, uh, a while since I've, I've, uh, been in that world. Um, but you just come to

realize that that's not what's important, right?

Craig Ulrich: No. No, not at all. I actually, it can backfire on you. I,

one time, one

time in my career, I, I. I said, this is the position I want, I want to go after that. How do I get there? One time I did that and it,

and it was

the worst. That was the worst mistake I ever made was, was saying, I want this position and tell me how to

get there.

And I listened and,

and it,

it, it really backfired.

It

is just better to go do your job every day

and, and things

open up. It's amazing how [00:41:00] things become available and open up

and, um,

and you just, and then you say, yeah, I'll go do that, you know, but, uh, but trying to get to a position is, for me,

it was the

biggest mistake I ever made in my life was trying to get to this position and, and, uh,

that it backfired

horribly.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah. Well that's sounds like an important lesson learned.

And,

um, you know,

as we wrap up

the conversation today, if listeners want to reach out to

you, what's the best way to get in touch?

Craig Ulrich: Probably LinkedIn. Right. I, I, I pretty much connect with anybody that, that, uh, that gets me on LinkedIn. Um, it's, it's, and it's

business appropriate,

right?

So I, I think, uh, um, that, that's probably best.

Natalie Nathanson: Perfect. Perfect. Well,

thank you, Craig. I really appreciate everything we talked about today.

Craig Ulrich: Yeah, thank you, Natalie. It was quite enjoyable.

Natalie Nathanson: Thank you. And you know, thank you too to everyone that's [00:42:00] listening. I know I loved hearing so much of what Craig shared from how he built credibility and this massive growth in new verticals, hearing more about his, uh, people first leadership style and the impact that that's had. So if today's episode gave you any valuable insights, and I'm sure that it did, please share this episode with someone.

We know that sharing this kind of knowledge and uh, information helps us all grow as leaders and helps us drive successful organizational transformation and for ourselves as leaders. So thank you again, Craig, and this has been another wonderful conversation on Shift and Thrive. I'll see you all next

time.

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