Shift & Thrive: CEO Insights on Driving Change

S&T_Sam Ziman
===

[00:00:00] In today's business world, change is the only constant, and mastering transformation is the ultimate key to success. Welcome to Shift and Thrive. I'm your host, Natalie Nathanson.

Each week we'll bring you conversations with CEOs who delve into how they successfully drove critical change in their organization. This show is sponsored by Magnitude Consulting, bringing you the thinking power of a growth consult. And the getting it done, power of a full service B2B marketing agency.

Natalie Nathanson: I am very excited to introduce today's guest. He

is a data scientist turned operator who has led multiple

full scale company transformations in just a few short years since stepping into the CEO role in his current company, he's a growth focused leader who helped evolve his organization from staffing to manage services, and then from services to

SaaS

product.

Within

his first two

years [00:01:00] of joining the company, he helped them win

their first three Federal Prime contracts, and he's now leading a strategic initiative into the commercial healthcare

market.

He's someone who believes opportunity favors the prepared, and that sometimes the most important deals happen outside the boardroom.

He is

the CEO of Global Commerce and

information,

also known as Global Ci

SAML

Zeman, welcome to the show.

Sam Ziman: Hi, Natalie. Thank you so much for

having me. Looking

forward to

talking with you.

Natalie Nathanson: Thank you. I am as well. And I know as I mentioned in your introduction, that you have led multiple, uh, reinventions

of your company

in a

relatively,

uh, short period

of time, and that one of the most significant ones

was moving

from

kinda services based model

to building SaaS products.

And I know very well, uh, You know, how, how big the, the implications are, uh, for that, for an

organization. So I'd

love to unpack that with you and, uh, really starting by having you taking us back to the moment of, You know, what prompted the move. Can you

talk about that [00:02:00] first and then we we'd love to dive in

deeper.

Sam Ziman: Absolutely. So when I joined the company, uh, six years ago, we were a staffing firm, uh,

for the federal government essentially, that

that was where our focus was.

And the real question was, are we resilient? Right? We were winning work. uh, As subcontractors,

but were we building something durable or were

we just

busy?

So what happened? Uh, what happens if,

You know, let's

say a new,

um, political initiative

starts changing work in the federal

government, right? Like we're

all seeing now.

Uh, and I always

say it's sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Uh, didn't see anything coming, but we were worried about resiliency.

Uh, hyper-focused in one area, You know, one specialty

and, and not spread across many agencies.

So

we started

looking at

what could we do next, [00:03:00] right? What could we really build with all the experience and the people that worked within this

company? And, uh, we found a, a lot,

a lot of

opportunity. So that's what led us

to

win those prime contracts, was telling, uh, You know, telling our story as a service provider, not as a staffing firm.

And how do

all those,

and

how did all those

hours

Of working in the

federal government translate to us being able to do the work ourselves? And, uh, telling that story was definitely a learning curve for everyone, but it, it ended up going really well for us.

Natalie Nathanson: That's great. ~What would you say are some of the biggest shifts that,~

~uh, had~

~to take place in the organization?~

Sam Ziman: ~We had to get everyone on the same page.~

~Um, when you're a staffing firm, I think it's really easy to forget who your~

~employer is,~

~right? You come~

~on and you join~

~through the staffing agency,~

~but you end up working for Company~

~X,~

~and that kind of~

~becomes more~

~your identity than the staffing~

~firm.~

~But When you're a service provider and you're still providing~

~services to Company~

~X, You know, the company that you're working through should be your identity.~

~creating that buy-in with a lot of the employees that we already~

~had, understanding that we were changing our mindset about how we went into things and how we wanted them to change their mindset. And You~

~know, part of it was. Giving them a chance to contribute to~

~what this company looked~

~like. Right?~

~You know, staffing firms~

~don't necessarily need or do that.~

~They're providing a, You know, basic service.~

~So when we changed that,~

~we started talking~

~to them about,~

~Hey, what~

~do you think~

~we~

~could do really well? You~

~know, what, what~

~are you amazing at? What would you love to do? And we'll go hunt for these things and find you the project that hopefully is you're passionate about.~

~And. You~

~know, once we had that~

~conversation, things started moving.~

Natalie Nathanson: and then I know more recently you've made the, or are made or are making the transition from services to SaaS products. Can you talk about. Out. You know what

initially prompted that?

Sam Ziman: Yeah, so same thing. Are we resilient? Right? What, what's gonna happen if uh, everything hits the fan? What's global CI gonna

do?

And then we started

doing the services. So then in the [00:04:00] services discussion, we're talking to people and they say,

oh, we built

this

and we built that.

And I'm like, You know, this stuff's

really amazing.

It's amazing on, on, on

a scale, You know, far outside of where it is with a lot of value to a lot of people.

And since one of our main missions is always to just help

people be better and be better ourselves

while providing

something that

has much greater value than its cost. We found some products

that we had

essentially developed,

um, in, in those environments, and we decided to take

them commercial. And, and that was really,

that was really a learning curve, right? Um, switching from,

uh, hyper transactional

company to a product firm, which is, You

know. You eat what you kill versus plant and harvest.

Right?

Um,

and that, [00:05:00] that mindset took

sharing a lot of the vision with everyone. What do we see this company in five years, 10 years? Um, and how

do we justify, You know, all

these investments

into this product to where

there isn't anyone paying for it at first?

Right? I mean,

that's the route we ended up taking.

Um.

Natalie Nathanson: And

Were these, uh, products

that were initially

developed, like

for specific customer use cases, and that's where kinda the, the ideas came from to make it, uh. Kind of more commercially available, more broadly.

Sam Ziman: Yeah. Initially we were building them in, in a federal agency and we

saw

that,

that the location

of the product

sitting in the federal agency might not have been the

best

place for it.

Right. They were, you kind of end up

at the end of

a process

versus at the beginning

of a problem. Right.

And what

we really wanted

to do was get

out front

and how can we help it, You know, and,

and [00:06:00] go and help

the people

that need this product and then essentially relieve a lot

of stress

off of the federal agency itself.

You know, it doesn't in any

way diminish the function of

that agency or

what it was doing. Um,

if anything, it makes

it more critical.

But if we can

get out

front of that

problem. We could streamline

the whole

process, that by the time it got to them,

they were

really getting, You know, more polished data information

and a, and a

product that they could consume easier and move along easier.

Um,

and just put

less constraint on, on already constrained resources.

So it moved the whole thing

to be very seamless.

Uh, it helped people helped get them

coverage.

And returned a lot of value

to our healthcare

clients 'cause we focus, uh, with

hospitals mostly. And that's one of them. And then the other product was, You know, the growth sector.

Uh,

one of the

people that

works with us is

a former hospital, CIO, and he just saw a

ton of value [00:07:00] in helping people identify the market that they work in and

the services they provide and

whether or not they were doing the right thing at all.

He sat through however many meetings in hospitals and he said, You know, I, I think we're

doing it wrong.

Um, and when he eventually left and came to us, he wanted to set it right and he

wanted to help change

and, and evolve those visions for the leaders of those organizations to get them

on the right track. You know,

if,

if you already have, if money's getting

tight.

You have hospitals across the country, You know, closing in

record numbers.

Each decision

is critical.

So how do we

show them and help them understand the world

they're in better so that they can make better decisions?

Natalie Nathanson: I'm curious to learn a little bit more about kinda some of those changes that had

to

take place, because I know from

the number of

clients that we've worked with that

have made that transition, right, there's[00:08:00]

cultural shifts for kind

of the team

to think differently. Um, there's obviously more flexibility in services than there

is in. In SAS products,

right?

Where services you can kind.

More and kind of shape around the, the offering around

kinda the needs

of an individual client and the SaaS. I know more of, uh, that

work has to be done

upfront. Um, so curious to hear from you, like what were those big areas that, uh, that needed to look different as, as you've been going through this?

Sam Ziman: So we're, we're super lean, right? Buy, buy-in

is critical. Um, everyone is a decision maker in

a small business. They all, everyone works in sales.

Uh, everyone is hands-on, right? And we

all have tons of hats. So when I worked at Medtronic uh, as an analyst there for a while, I'm gonna leave the guy's name out because I

can't remember what his last name was, but he had this idea, um.

that

[00:09:00] he learned and he

shared with us

called radical transparency. It's not a, a new idea and, and even though it's called radical transparency, it's not a radical idea by any means, but

It really resonated with me because, especially

at larger companies

like Medtronic, where, You

know, it's a $32 billion company

and there's so many

moving parts.

you don't always understand what's happening or why they're doing

something, and it may

seem nonsensical to you when you're, You know, boots on the ground.

But through that program we got to see a much larger picture

that was easier for us to

consume and just. to,

execute on it and

make sure that the decisions we were making aligned with that.

So I really

liked that.

And You know, I took it even one step further to just be completely transparent with everyone

at my company that's a contributor.

Hey,

this is really what we want to do. We think this is the right thing,[00:10:00]

but we need to understand, You know,

you're the SME. Am I, am I off base? Did

I

miss the mark?

how can I get back on, how can You know

we change

entirely.

to entirely

is exactly how we changed, moving from staffing to product,

and what

do we need to bring on? And it's always a

relief when so many of the

people you work with have ideas

and have knowledge that they maybe weren't necessarily utilizing at that

time.

But that translated really well

over here.

they shared that journey

with us and what

we, they

thought we

needed to do.

and just showing

them where

we were trying to

go made it easier to steer the ship. It was just

more

hands on deck,

made less work for everyone and, and we were

able to move it and

the

communication across

the entire company

all the time.

And that's

really part of it all the time, talking daily, [00:11:00] especially when you're fully

remote, because, uh, they,

there was a study not

long ago that said, uh, someone 50 feet away from you.

has

the same rate of communication with

you as someone in

another state. It really only took

50 feet of separation to put

everything remote.

Um,

and You know, when COVID hit, everybody went

fully remote. We got rid of our

offices. Most of our

people were on site

with clients when they needed

to be anyway. So making sure that in that remote environment, that communication didn't break down, didn't lapse.

Um, and just stayed in front of people all the time, whether you were texting a group chat, um, hitting 'em all

up

on teams, creating

recurring meetings, just to check in,

whatever it was. Just making sure everybody

knew that we were

all available and if they had something on their mind,

they could reach out to us or because we had multiple touch points, they could just hold it

for that.

Whatever was

more convenient and that really helped us

[00:12:00] stay on top

of everything.

Just talking all the time and not letting

that communication break down.

Natalie Nathanson: I think that's a, a sign

of a, of a strong culture and a dedicated

team.

And I know, You know, especially, You know, in times of change, which we talked about COVID, we know now like organizations are going through tremendous, uh, change and evolution with kinda AI and, and all of that. Um, and I'm curious to hear, uh, if there were any kind of examples of anything that came up from, from the team, any kinda surprises or anything that, uh, kind of pivoted or

shifted your,

your direction,

uh, based

on something you heard from

the

team?

Sam Ziman: Absolutely. What's the point of having subject matter experts if

you don't listen to them? Right?

Um,

I

learned everything is done. It

took a lot longer than I hoped or thought.

when you're,

I think

I'm more of a dreamer than anything else. So sometimes I really,

I'm, I'm sprinting in

my head,[00:13:00]

uh, due

to a lack of

understanding of what it's

gonna take to get where we need to be.

And I'm already ready for phase two.

You know,

I, I visioned phase one.

I gave

it

to you guys. Alright, when's phase two?

And I had to listen

and

slow down and understand

the lift. And what it was gonna take and what the people needed to get it done and made

sure that before anything else

that was provided

for them,

right?

You know that servant

leadership is really powerful. If your people are

tired, go get 'em. Coffee. That

title doesn't mean anything. If, if you drive it into the ground,

you

did nothing. So listen to your people. It, it, they, they know. They're in it way, way more than you are.

Um, especially, You know,

I'm 35, so

my

company is just full of people with tons of experience

and I just need

to hear what they [00:14:00] have to say so that I don't get, You know,

what

I think is,

You

know, right around the corner

is actually two years down the road.

Um, and that was a, that was

a pretty good lesson to

learn.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. I think you raise an interesting dynamic

too,

where as a leader, right, you need to

be thinking

a few steps ahead, right? And like you said,

the, the product and kind of thinking of the phase two, uh, but also like very much grounded in the present reality of the organization and not kinda running ahead when your team is still

focused on delivering what they need to deliver every day and kind of working through the change and, and all of that.

So sometimes easier said than done,

Sam Ziman: Yeah. And, uh, and not

creating undue stress on them. because you, you're so far ahead in your mind that,

and

they have to be like, Hey man,

relax. We got a lot of work to do before we get there. Um,

and just

being receptive to that. But

you still still need a dreamer and you need a doer.

You need, you need all those

things to work together [00:15:00] to, to get

where you're

going.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah,

for sure.

And You know, you're talking about, You know, you alluded to your servant leadership style.

I love the radical transparency that you brought in. Would love to hear just how you do, describe your leadership style.

Sam Ziman: no. No matter how many times I

hear that question, um,

I don't know if I've ever had a great

answer. I think it's. Something better for someone else to answer. But I'll tell you what my goal is.

Natalie Nathanson: Perfect.

Sam Ziman: My goal, my goal is

to

almost be invisible. there's a saying by

lousy that says

when

the work is done

and

the dream fulfilled, but people will say, we did it ourselves.

And

I think that

that is probably

the most

important thing

that I hope to be as a leader, is

someone that gets everyone where they're going

and, [00:16:00] and they 100% know that it was their time and

energy

and effort that got us there.

Natalie Nathanson: I think

that's really beautiful. I,

uh, I

share that kind of a view. You point. And

I think

it's very

important to, for

the team to have pride in,

You

know, what they're doing day to day, what they're

building.

Um,

so I think that says a lot about you as

a person. Uh, I'm curious

if your leadership style

has changed over

the years.

Sam Ziman: Uh,

yeah. Yes. Um,

I, I, so even though I did

go into data science

before that, I

was a bicycle mechanic.

For a

long time and I had a lot of fun doing that. It was excellent. Um, I think everyone should work in

some

kind

of services industry growing up 'cause it helps you, uh, be grateful to the people around you and all the people that,

uh, end up.

You know, serving you at some point, whether it's a restaurant, [00:17:00] your car, something like that.

Just go see that point of view. Walk a mile and some shoes.

Uh, I walked many miles and then even though I had

no idea what I was doing

when I

graduated

college, I really thought I did. And so then,

um, I walked around for about a whole year with my foot in my mouth.

And

there's lots

of, uh, embarrassing haunting stories that

I have from that

that, uh, sometimes keep

me awake at night for no reason. But really it's about, You know, learning that lesson,

uh, not wallowing in it or

becoming mired in some of those things. And, uh, making sure you don't do it twice.

Hey, this is Natalie, your Shift and Thrive host. After chatting with lots of CEOs, one thing is crystal clear. Leveling up your company means having a killer Go-to-market strategy. That's what my crew at Magnitude Consulting does every day. If you're trying to step up your [00:18:00] marketing game, whether it's strategizing, accelerating your pipeline, expanding into new markets, or getting into AI and automation, let's talk.

No pitch, no pressure. Just good conversation. Visit shift and thrive podcast.com/natalie to schedule a time. Can't wait to connect.

Natalie Nathanson: ~I'm curious to ask how you went from being~

~a bicycle~

~mechanic into data science, and were there other~

~steps along that journey or, You know, how did,~

~how~

~did you get to~

~start the career you're, you're in today?~

Sam Ziman: ~Well, I think it's a pretty generic tale, but I went to school for a long time, changed~

~my major a whole bunch, and kept restarting that,~

~Uh,~

~collegiate~

~career. I ended up in Colorado,~

~went to their school of~

~business.~

~something clicked. I don't know if it was because~

~I was a little~

~bit older or I'd~

~been doing it for so long, but,~

~um,~

~it,~

~it definitely made sense when I was there for some reason, when I wasn't in anywhere else, followed that path.~

~You know,~

~the school offered an amazing internship~

~programs and opportunities that were exclusive~

~to people in the business~

~school. Took advantage of that.~

~And then, uh,~

~yeah, some~

~unfortunate company took~

~me as their intern~

~for the first year and, um, I was probably much older than they expected me to be~

~when I got~

~there and, uh,~

~just cut my teeth~

~on 'em real hard.~

~It~

~was,~

~it was~

~a lot of learning and then~

~normal stuff, right?~

~Um. Started doing some data analytics, working with the data team. Hey, I really like this. What could I do with this~

~more? Next~

~job, full data focus forecast analyst for CenturyLink.~

~Next job, um, data scientists and sales analysts for~

~Medtronic.~

Natalie Nathanson: ~And the rest is history.~

Sam Ziman: ~Yep.~

Natalie Nathanson: ~Um, yeah. I also love what you said about right. Everyone should~

~work in a,~

~in a consumer~

~services industry. Um,~

~you made me think about, uh, my college days, uh, working in restaurants as a hostess and then wait staff. And, You know, first off it~

~was just so fun~

~and~

~I was very energized~

~by~

~kind of the~

~multitasking and what do I need to,~

~can I grab from this part and go over to~

~that table and.~

~Um, but it also like gives you thicker~

~skin, right? Not everyone is nice. Not~

~every moment, uh, you kind of feel at your best. Um, so I think of, uh, just the impact that, that had, uh, eventually~

~going into sales, right?~

~Where~

~not. Everybody responds And~

~so I~

~think~

~all of these experiences do, do really shape us.~

Sam Ziman: ~Absolute.~

Natalie Nathanson: I am, uh. Curious to follow up on, on something, uh, that you said, uh, when we spoke previously, um, right, that success is, You know,

when preparation meets opportunity, uh, because

I know a lot of your biggest wins, uh, didn't come through kind of more traditional. Uh, structure

or sales processes, but kind of being at the, the right place at the right time, so to speak.

Um, but I think that's also, um, which says something about you. So I'm curious, like, how do you think about this? How do you position, uh, yourself, uh, so that these opportunities, uh, so you're kind

of opening the door for these opportunities?

Sam Ziman: Mm. I think, uh, one of the sayings

that I, I love

and when I need to

change.

something I'm

doing [00:19:00] is you become what you

study if

you want to be a car mechanic, you need to

live and breathe

and read and write

and study, and watch and consume

as much as possible. It will

saturate your way of thinking so

that it becomes a second language.

~ when it, I~

~gotta~

~stop~

~saying~

~that. ~when

we

move to services, I

started learning and thinking like a services

company. Reading

a case studies, case studies are such a huge help. people have already learned the lesson for you. You don't have to learn it the hard way. You,

you're probably gonna

learn it no matter what,

Um, and you're gonna feel

that

disappointment. But if you understand where you

went wrong, then you don't have to learn it over and over and

over again. So, become what you study, study what you need to be.

You know, we're going into products.

I,

it has been like drinking through a hose, learning

the lingo.

the more [00:20:00] specific your product

gets, like a lot of ours are, and the

more you work in

the industry, you have to learn your industry.

So you

read the news about healthcare and hospitals and

you just keep learning

about it. What makes them tick? What should make you tick?

What should your product be hitting on that's gonna

bring value to these people?

You know, if You know something that keeps somebody

up at night

and you have

a solution, that's what you need and you need to speak their language.

Natalie Nathanson: I'm curious, what, what do these learning practices work best for you? Are there certain kinda rhythms

or types of sources that,

that, you find most beneficial?

Sam Ziman: I, love to read. I love to read. So find a book. About what you do

find and read the

reviews, find an entertaining book because it's, there's gonna

be a,

a lot of

brain drain,

uh, before

you even get the message as you learn the lingo.

Right? That's a big part of

it. So,

um, [00:21:00] I actually have one,

I don't wanna advertise someone else's stuff, but when we started get into federal contracting, Dan Roche wrote a book, uh, called The Total Beginner's Handbook for Doing Business with the Gov Government.

You know,

basically,

um, working with the government for

Dummies,

It's amazing and it outlines what you

need to do.

And then when we started to go through transformation, I just have

these all right here.

This is not a pre-setup,

I swear. Um, one of the other ones was,

uh, the Outliers, right? This is

basically case studies by Warren Buffett and what made different

companies different. They're not all relatable by any means, but

The language

in there is

amazing,

and the stories are really good and the writing makes

it enjoyable. So, You know, you start picking

up books that are what you need to

be and learning about them and seeing what other people have already gone

through [00:22:00] and taking those lessons with you.

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I love that. Uh, You know, Patrick Lencioni is one of my favorite, uh, business authors, and

it's for the same reason,

right? He writes.

Them as stories, so you're not reading kind of a, a dense textbook, but, uh,

you're really kind

of learning through that,

which is that, that case study approach.

I'm curious, You know, how much of this is, uh, just you versus others in your organization, and are you, have you

tried, like, is to instill

this kind of mindset, uh, in others on your team, or do you kind of let let people, uh, You know, do it on their own

or

not?

Sam Ziman: It is definitely a mix. different people move at different paces you have to make room for all of them.

especially at a lean company.

they're all pivotal. But

You

know, being a 30 5-year-old CEO,

you need to sit and listen to people that have been

doing this twice as long as you have, and you need to listen,

and your ego [00:23:00] needs to go.

in the trash.

You gotta get rid of it.

Otherwise,

you're never gonna hear what

they're saying.

And You always need to listen with the intent to hear, not to respond, and sometimes that's a conversation I have

to have with

my more technical people.

Um,

they just

tend to

get really into the detail and the conversation can get, uh,

really pulled

apart and away from the target of the conversation.

it's because the, the, they get way far down the line with the solution. Um,

past the point where they're necessarily

hearing the, they're not

quite

hearing the problem the same. And sometimes we, You know, and on the other side of that, I might not be right. If I don't understand the solution enough, I might also miss

it. So the truth of of that

is in the middle is where we need to be, far enough down the line where we're talking about the solution[00:24:00]

and right on track with where

we need to

get to the goal. So

it,

it's all about that open communication. Nothing is all of,

of one thing,

especially not at

my company.

Um, it's definitely a culmination of everybody's

personality and experiences and

knowhow and all of us working together to find the best way forward.

Natalie Nathanson: I think too, um, You know, you're talking about kind of listening

to truly hear

versus. Kind of preparing your response, which I know can, can be tough.

I think thinking about like,

like meeting note takers and

kind of using generative ai, I think opens up a lot new, a lot of new

opportunities to do that.

I know sometimes for

me, like hearing a conversation that I was a part of gives

me kind of a different lens through

it or

putting it into kind of our corporate LLM

and then,

Hey, what did I, what did I miss? What did I not ask that I

should have?

So, it's interesting to kinda have that, uh, You know, sparring [00:25:00] partner, so to speak,

like with

yourself or like through technology, that

that

can really help open up our minds and look in

different directions like that.

Sam Ziman: ~Being able to listen and not have to create like a whole new version~

~of shorthand writing to keep up with a conversation~

~that's moving~

~really fast and~

~then hoping~

~that when you go back~

~and look at your notes,~

~you understand 80% of it.~

~Uh, and just being able~

~to be present and part of the conversation and not~

~have to worry~

~about all those backend action items because they're being captured.~

~That's great. ~

Natalie Nathanson: I wanna hear a, a bit more about your company and, You know, we're talked about some of your company's transformations, but what kind of transformations are,

are your

customers going through?

Sam Ziman: Absolutely. So the federal government is going through a lot

right now.

Um,

a lot of hardship, uh, empty

offices, same amount of work, fewer people. Uh, less resources to

get the

work done. Tons of stress and a lot of pressure.

Everybody's

watching you. Everything that happens directly affects us.

That

was one of the things that made me most proud about doing federal government work, is everything we delivered

to

the federal government, they turned around and delivered

to 400

million people.

And that was

really,

You

[00:26:00] know, what, what better calling can you have than to.

help the people,

helping the people.

But that same mindset transitioned for us when we moved over to

hospitals.

It's about helping the people, helping the people. And, You know,

sometimes the pillars in our lives themselves need that assistance to stand up and, uh, on their own two feet in a lot of ways, and be prepared and feel

that working with you as a company

is strengthening their

position,

uh, everywhere.

And That,

You know, part

of it is not

trying to be

diplomatic here, but

You don't have

to live

in

a customer forever.

They have

a need. You might

just be passing

through.

So show

up, deliver, and if

there's no

longer a need, don't create [00:27:00] one. Don't just sit there and, and drain

the resources.

Get them to where they need to be and move on.

They will remember you for that.

They will come back to you just to

see if you can do a thing,

because you did it,

you got it done,

and you didn't

hang around to

see if there was, You know, some crumbs left over. Or if you could do

something that someone else was doing well and, uh.

You know, that's not necessarily in line with a

lot of the competitive business thinking

that might exist out there

today, but I think it's

highly valuable to be

able to come and execute.

and

relieve stress and not

be a burden

for

your customers.

Natalie Nathanson: I couldn't

agree more.

Uh, You know, we have something similar

on my marketing consultancy where really

the focus is staying as long as you bring

value. And recognizing that some of our best client engagements, we successfully

worked our way out of a job,

right? We worked

together from the, the origins of [00:28:00] putting their, their marketing.

Strategy

and infrastructure in

place, uh, executing, uh,

in some cases, uh, helping to,

to kinda build and grow the team, and then getting them to a point where they're self-sufficient, right? Every, every client is different as far as kinda what they need

and, and for

how long. Um, but to your point like that, that's what builds trust.

That's what

fosters,

uh, the right relationships. And at the end of the day. Uh, all of this is about, is about relationships and right. If you make your clients successful and they remember you fondly, that that does come, come back around. Uh, not to mention it, it

just feels better, right? Living as a,

with, with those

kind of values,

Uh, so we've talked about

some of the, uh, transformations on the, on the business side. Uh,

I'd love

to kinda zoom out and

like

hear a little bit more about you personally. Um, so would love to start by asking you, You know, who was SAML as a child and how, how did that reflect, uh, kinda the career you've

ultimately

built

for

[00:29:00] yourself?

Sam Ziman: I'd say I, I was a

rascal. Um, I still

am.

Uh, a social butterfly.

I really like to be out

and about

and, uh, don't like spending too much time alone.

So, You know, being in, in these roles, uh,

maybe the open communication

thing with my

company is more for me than anyone else, and I just need to talk to people all the time, every

day, and I love it.

Um, but.

I

played sports my whole life. I still play sports. Uh, I'm still very competitive. I still go

out and compete and

I think that

helps a lot

to feed that

nature and to bring it

to the workplace and try to put and instill

not a sense of

urgency, but a,

a fund competition. And not within

the company, but with

your.

Competitors with [00:30:00] people

that are out there,

you want to beat them to the punch. We got something new. Is anybody

else doing this? No, let's be first.

Let's get there. Let's get there

fast. Um,

and that's me not learning the lesson. I talked

about learning earlier. Uh,

that sometimes you gotta slow

down, but

going

slow is tough.

And I think I was like that as a

kid too.

Um.

Natalie Nathanson: Any

stories come to mind

to share? Either, uh, You know about. It called yourself a rascal. Uh, anything you've learned from, uh, from

some of those as a, as a, as a kid?

Sam Ziman: I think one lesson I

learned, um, and, and a former boss

of mine taught me. He put it in. He didn't say it to me directly

to shape the story a little bit differently, but it

was in the employee handbook

and

it said, never miss an opportunity to shut your mouth.

'cause there is going to be

one, and if you miss it,

you might be

[00:31:00] missing a lot more than that opportunity.

You might be missing something important that needed to

be said,

but you talked through it or. You didn't quite understand something and didn't realize it, and

now

you've changed someone's perception of you

or you've really, really

put your foot in your

mouth and

I've eaten a lot of shoes. So that's,

that's a lesson that is not fun

to learn, but down the line

when you have something to

say.

You're not sure if it's right and you don't say it,

and you, on the

other side of the conversation, you

catch

everything

that you realize you missed, or that you were gonna be wrong about. Man, that feels like a powerful

lesson, that feels like very transformative

sometimes to, uh, just not say anything

and

listen.

Natalie Nathanson: I love that, and I think that's, uh, good advice for, uh, for a lot of folks to, to

think through.

[00:32:00] Um, so I know we're nearing the end of our time, but as we

wrap up today's conversation,

can you let our listeners know

what's the best way to get in touch?

Sam Ziman: Yeah,

so, uh, SAML dot ziman@globalci.com. If

you want to email me, you can go to my LinkedIn, which will be provided in the bio, and my work number and

email are on there as well.

Send me an invite.

Let's connect. Let's talk.

Natalie Nathanson: Wonderful. Wonderful.

Well, thank you. I really enjoyed talking with you and

talking about, uh,

what has shaped, uh, and informed your leadership style, uh, and the different transition. that you've

helped lead your organization through. So thank you so much for sharing that.

Sam Ziman: Great. Thank you so much, Natalie. I really enjoyed our time.

Natalie Nathanson: Uh, same, same. And thank you to, to everyone that's listening, and

if today's conversation sparked something for you, please pass

this along

to another leader. Because we know that insights like this

really

fuel fresh thinking for all of us

and help us drive real change in our company and in ourselves. So thanks [00:33:00] again, SAML, and this has been another wonderful conversation on Shift and Thrive.

I'll see you all next time.

That's a wrap for this week's episode. For show notes and more visit Shift and thrive podcast.com. A special thank you to our sponsor, magnitude Consulting, bringing you the thinking power of a growth consultancy and the getting it done Power of a full service marketing agency to help B2B companies fuel their growth.

For more information on magnitude and to get your complimentary transformation readiness assessment, visit magnitude consulting.com/. Get ready. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.