Shift & Thrive: CEO Insights on Driving Change

Natalie Nathanson: I am super excited to speak with today's guest. He's a serial entrepreneur and sales tech innovator who spent his career transforming how companies can engage with their customers. He's built and sold two businesses in the tech sector, including one of the largest Salesforce consulting partners in 2019.

He co-founded his current firm and AI powered CRM platform, designed to uncover the limitations of legacy systems. Ultimately earning a reputation for changing the game in CRM, eliminating manual data entry and delivering real-time proactive insights to both sales reps and leadership.

Following

the company's successful acquisition in 2024, he continues to lead the organization.

He is the founder and CEO of Spiro. Adam Hoig. Welcome to the show.

Adam Honig: Thanks Natalie. I, I'm really excited to be a serial entrepreneur 'cause it makes it sound to me like I have special K options or something like that going on.

Natalie Nathanson: Yep.

yep. Third time's a charm.

Adam Honig: Exactly.

Natalie Nathanson: And, you know, to that end, you know, your path as a founder, uh, you know, looks like a, a pattern of, uh, kinda reinvention from building a top Salesforce consulting firm and then kind of using that knowledge to build a different kind of, uh, CRM.

Um, and I know from, uh, prior conversations that at Spiro, one of the most pivotal shifts, uh, really came from paying close attention to where the product was gaining traction and. Uh, Ultimately leading you to focus on the manufacturing vertical. So we'd love to hear from you, you know, how did that come about and what did that, uh, shift and focus unlock for the business?

Adam Honig: Yeah.

Well, you know, I imagine that there are some really smart people who, when they make their business plan, they have everything planned out perfectly and so on. On. And, um, I guess that's just not me. 'cause the way that, uh, I tend to go about it is a little bit more kinesthetic, you know, like learning as we go.

And when we first started, Spiro. And we had the idea to build a, you know, brand new CRM platform. Uh, we, you know, as you traditionally do, we sold it to everybody we could find. So we had insurance companies using it, minor league, baseball teams, you know, and manufacturing companies as as well. And over time what we realized is that, um.

It just worked better for the manufacturing companies and we started to investigate why. And it was that the, the core value of what Spero does is it's essentially a CRM that nobody needs to use. And it just does all this stuff automatically. And, uh, you know, if you're working for a high tech company, you're pretty good with tech.

If you're working for a management manufacturing company, um, maybe not as much. And so you really need that AI to do things for you in, in that industry more than others. And we just kind. Discovered that through trial and error and really leaned into it and really made the whole product vision around manufacturing.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Oh, that's great. Um, I have had a similar experience, which maybe we'll get into little bit later in the discussion as far as our own firm's industry focus. Uh, but interested in hearing, um, you know, how that shift happened. Like was it more, uh, organic? Was there a moment when you said, okay, like I'm sure of it, we need to focus on manufacturing now.

Talk me through that.

Adam Honig: Yeah. So, um, you know, like if you read, you know, the, the industry press, you know, people talk a lot about pivots. For me, it's more of a. Gradual left turn, you know, like we noticed that, um, you know, manufacturers, distributors, and, you know, some other industries were, were good fits for the platform. And so we, you know, we focus our marketing in those areas, but still kind of broadly.

Um, you know, in a minor league baseball team would show up and we'd still feel pretty excited about working with them. And then over time, as we built more and more product features, we just kind of narrowed and narrowed the scope of who we wanted to engage with. As a customer. And so, um, you know, I'd say after about a couple years of leaning into the focus, we literally set up our lead gen forms so that if you self-identify as a non-manufacturer, you know, we basically just don't engage with you, you know?

So, uh, it was kind of gradual, but eventually got to the point where we were like, no, this is our ICP and, and this is what we're doing.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Was there any, uh, kind of fear of like lost, missed revenue or anything like that when you did make that final call or at that point, was it, uh, you know, pretty, uh. Pretty safe.

Adam Honig: Yeah, so we, we focus on, um, mid-size manufacturers in the United States and Canada. And there's 66,000 of 'em today. And so I think we felt pretty good, you know, once we'd done enough research to be like, okay, I think we, you know, we have enough reference customers, we have enough knowledge in this area. The TAM is big enough, so yeah, like, let's just go.

So I, I don't, I think we, we, you know, kind of boiled the ocean to become comfortable with it, if you know what I mean.

Natalie Nathanson: Yep, yep. For sure. Um, and you talked about kind of the product just fitting well, uh, with,

uh, with that market. Were there any specific things you did, you know, after choosing manufacturing?

Uh, kind of evolving the product a certain way? over the years?

Adam Honig: yeah. Yeah. Well, for, for the people who are not familiar with manufacturing, it's an industry. It's, uh, you know, obviously has a deep focus on building product and a lot of that information to do that comes from a ERP system that every manufacturing system a company has to have. And so we, uh, we really leaned into integrating with, um, manufacturing ERP systems like NetSuite and SAP and Epicor to make sure that we could consume data about their order history and everything that was going on from their customers from that perspective.

And that just made. Spear of that much richer in terms of the, the insights that it was able to provide customers. And of course that meant that, you know, for insurance companies or companies that didn't have these ERP systems, we were less valuable. So it just kind of naturally kind of pushed us down that path of being very industry focused.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean we, we had a, a similar journey where, you know, my marketing consultancy has always been kind of in the B2B Tech umbrella.

Uh, but then, uh, early on started to see a lot of traction, uh, in cybersecurity. And the intention was never to become kind of a firm that only focused on that vertical, but it did become a very large focus for us and kind of the a, a core market. Um, and as we often tell. You know, clients that we're working with, um, it's great to have, like, if you have a horizontal solution.

But figuring out like where to place your bets from a proactive, you know, marketing and sales standpoint. I know for you've kind a product as

well over time. Um, but just need to find those, like those go to market paths that make sense. And it's hard to do that when you are trying to be. You know, all things to all people.

Adam Honig: I feel like in, in today's world, when a, when you're dealing with a prospect, they really wanna feel like the solution is for them. You know? And so if it's, if it's too horizontal, I feel like it's hard for them to make that connection to a brand or a product. Um, so I, I think it's working really well for us.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah. And to that end, can you talk a bit, um, from the go to market standpoint, um, you know, what's been most important for your organization to get right on the go to market side, um, and, you know, you know, what, what are some of those key components that have worked well for you?

Adam Honig: Yeah, so I mean, just to give it some context, uh, you know, we're, you know, at, at the end of the day, we're a CRM platform and we're competing with two of the most arguably successful software companies of all time, all existence in Salesforce and HubSpot. So in order to do that successfully, uh, niching down into the manufacturing sector and really building strong domain experience in that one sector is super key.

But also having a, what I consider a provocative marketing approach to it, which is we, we are anti CRM, we are the anti C-R-M-C-R-M, and so our go-to market is really focused on educating people about how. Terrible CRM is and nobody should ever use it. And um, it works really well in our vertical because the majority of mid-size manufacturing companies don't use CRM 'cause they already know how terrible it is.

And so a lot of our. Campaigns, whether they're social or email or trade shows and what have you, are all about just, Hey, C's terrible. We know it's terrible. Let's talk about how terrible it is. And then people are like, yeah, I wish there was something that was like it, but it, maybe we didn't have to use it.

And we're like, oh, funny. That's what we do. You know, so that our, our go to market at the top of the funnel is very, very focused on creating, um, kind of a cognitive dissonance between, you know, what people think about CRM and what it actually is. So I'm, I'm not sure if that was your full question, but that's kind of the way I think about it.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and again, interestingly, like there's some, some parallels with, with my business that we often refer to ourselves as the anti agency from a marketing standpoint. Um, and I think there's, uh. There's a balance though, right?

So

here's

how we do things differently. Here's why we've kind of, uh, built kind of our model and our structure differently. Um, but you also still wanna show up where your ideal clients are, are looking, and so you still have to be kind of part of that conversation. It's kinda the interesting balance of like positioning, like you said, the provocative messaging and um, and then ultimately, um, and putting your money where your mouth is and proving that you're different, right?

that's where the, the real impact comes into play.

Adam Honig: We tried calling ourselves a proactive relationship management solution, other things like that. But the truth is that people Google CRM for manufacturing and stuff like that, and so you want to be able to be in front of people when they're looking for things, but you need to kind of stick out in a way at the same time.

Natalie Nathanson: Right, right. For sure. Um, I wanna zoom out a little bit. You know, we've talked about your, your go-to-market strategy and kinda how you found that traction. Tell me a little bit more about Spiro and I guess in the context of your target market. Like what are the kinds of transformations manufacturing clients are going through and kind of the role that you play in helping them, uh, through that.

Adam Honig: Yeah, well it's a very interesting time, you know, in business to be a manufacturer, as there's a big focus on expanding domestic manufacturing, uh, here in the us. Um, but a lot of the customers that we work with are family businesses. They were started, uh, you know, two or three generations ago, and there's a, a changing of the guard where the younger family members are taking over and they're looking at the business and they're saying, Hey, everything's been really great, but if we digitize, if we became more modern, could we be even that much more effective?

That's usually a, a really good entry point for us to help people. Uh, because a lot of our customers prior to using Spiro, had very, very limited customer data. You know, they had sales teams who had silos of information on their laptops. They had an ERP system that had maybe the. Purchasing person's name and email address.

But no, even, even like sending out a Christmas card list was hard for these people. They had such little like, um, you know, customer information. And so, uh, what, what Sphero does without people putting any effort in, it just automatically starts collecting all of that information based upon everybody's interactions so they can build up that list of contacts, it can give them visibility into what's going on with their customers.

And, and the big goal for a lot of them. Is to combine that with order information and so.

We have a customer, uh, they're called Electro Flex, uh, in Illinois, and they, they make electrical conduit. They have 10,000 customers they sell electrical conduit to, and, you know, you with their 10 person sales team, they can't stay on top of all of those customers and figure out which ones have stopped ordering.

Uh, but if, you know, if

we

Have the insight from the ERP about what their order history is. If we have the communication history from emails and phone calls, the AI can look at that and be like, oh, we better call Sally because that business has stopped ordering electrical conduit from us. And there's just no way they could do that analysis manually.

It would just simply take too long. So,

you

know, that's, that's one of the examples of how we help people.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

Um,

and it sounds like, you know, I was gonna ask about mindset shift of your, your target market. It sounds like with the, the changing of the guard, so to speak, of kind of the newer family generation coming in that might be happening a bit naturally.

Uh, can you talk like, is there any friction between maybe like the decision makers and the users? I've been in situations where, right, like leadership might be excited about kinda bringing in new technology, all of that. And then users may be resistant to it, though. It sounds like you make, uh, sales lives easier.

Um, can you just talk about like any, uh, any shifts there or any uh,

Adam Honig: yeah,

it's, so, it's sort of interesting because like imagine, your father had started this manufacturing business and then he had hired all of these people to be the sales team, and now you, Natalie are taking over as the new president. Now, your father hired all these people, they might all be older than you, and you're now saying, okay, we're gonna do.

things Differently. We're gonna use a software to help us with this. So it is a very delicate situation. and so, you know, our strategy for overcoming resistance, is to make it so that people have to change as little as possible. you know, and that the, software does most of the work for them automatically and that it can help them, you know, see things that'll literally make them more money if they pay attention to it.

Uh, but, but using Spra doesn't require people to do things differently. And so if they, if they just went about their day, normally, sphere would still work. Uh, it'll work better if they do pay attention and use it and stuff like that, but it, we, that's a key design principle to, to help overcome that very, very specific issue.

Natalie Nathanson: Yep. Yep. Well, imagine then you do start to see those, uh, the user starts to see those light bulb moments going on, and then they're more willing to, to change their behaviors

Adam Honig: Sometimes. Sometimes. But I, I'll tell you that, you know, a lot of times, um, you know, salespeople are very jealous of the information that they have because it is like job security. They don't want people to take over their territory or eventually be replaced. Um, but I think, you know, I think as we. Work with, you know, as, as the sales teams of our customers get more and more digital aware, I think that kind of fades away over time too.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah. I could certainly see that. Um, well that's, uh, super interesting to think about. I would love to switch gears a bit and, uh, talk a bit more about you as a leader and, uh, maybe starting with what has, uh, shaped your leadership style over the years.

Adam Honig: Yeah, I mean, I think for me, um, you know, having started a couple of businesses from being, it just me and having to do everything has made me, um, as a leader very aware of just all the things that need to be done. You know what I mean? And so like there's nothing that goes on at Spiro or my last company interview that I.

I didn't do. And so like, you know, with that in mind, I think it's very easy to be empathetic and really understand where employees are coming from and work in a spirit of trying to guide everybody to the goal instead of being very task management focused, if you know what I mean. So I think, you know, for that's, that's kind of how I came to my style, which is very hands-on that way.

Natalie Nathanson: Mm-hmm.

Are there any points where you feel like, like something is too much hands-on? Like, I think being able to do something can almost, and from my own experience at least, can, can sometimes be a detriment,

um,

because you do get kind of too involved or, um.

Right. That it doesn't always give the, the autonomy. Have there been any points when you've had to, like deliberately, uh, kind of break away from, from being hands-on?

Adam Honig: Sure. Well we, um, so for a long time I was essentially the product manager of Spiro, you know, kind of defining, you know, the, the different features that we were gonna be building and, you know, kind of building the, the Jira tickets and all the different things that we needed to do. And we have a brought on a wonderful product manager and worked with her for a long time and felt.

Great about everything that she's doing, but sometimes I still feel like, oh, I wish I could just, you know, kinda get in there on that. But yeah, no, it's, it's always a struggle, you know, but I think, I think the best way for me at least to solve that is by being really busy

and we're really busy.

I

mean, we just have, you know, a lot of customers, uh, and we have a lot of people that we're talking to in the sales cycle and we're trying to hire, and so it's just literally not possible for me to do all of that stuff.

And so I think that's a big driver for

me.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't thought about it in that way, but I think that's been, uh, whether intentional or not,

uh, having too many other things to focus on has been a good way to separate myself from that.

Adam Honig: But I, I do feel like it's really important, uh, for people who are used to doing things to still have a hand in that. I think if my job was just going to meetings and meeting with people and never doing any concrete deliverable of anything. I, I think I would be less satisfied with that, you know, so I think, I think you have to pick your spots, but I think it's really important to still stay engaged that way.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and like your own kind of style of how you kinda show up as a leader in terms of, uh, like my, uh, team and I did, uh,

Enneagram

a number of years ago. And I learned, I'm the, I think it's number six, the loyal skeptic. Like I am always like scanning for risks and what could go wrong and, um. And, but having that common language, you know, the, the way I can communicate with my leadership team, um, they can start by saying, okay, here's what we believe the risks are and here's what we're thinking about. Right? And then I'm like, okay, I can breathe out a sigh of relief. Got that comfort level. But all of that is, um, learning, like how, how you work with the other leaders, where everyone's coming from, and then, uh, creating that comfort level.

Adam Honig: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I should take that. I, I wonder what I would be in that. I know I, I've done a couple different things like that in my career. It's always very interesting to see.

Natalie Nathanson: It

is. It is. I, I'm a, I'm a junkie for those. Uh, and Enneagram was a, was a particularly, uh, useful one that, that, uh, felt like a game changer.

So highly recommended. Um, another area I'd be interested in hearing from you is the shift from leading a services business to leading a SaaS product. Can you talk about whether that required anything different in kind of your, your leadership, kind of what, what you kinda had to bring to the, to the organization.

Adam Honig: Well,

it, required. Tremendous change, and I think I dramatically underestimated it when we started. Uh, so you know, my last company, I think we had about 750 consultants when I left. And um, so we were, it was always kind of about hiring and process and, you know, finding the new clients to replace the old projects.

And it was, you know, as I'm sure you're aware, just a bit of a grind to do that, always to leap into.

Designing

things that had to be standalone on their own and work independently, uh, which is a very, very, and I'm talking about the product here, a very big change. And, you know, when you're in a services business, often the, the, your revenue is capped by the amount of people that you have. And so you're constantly focused on like the, you know, those sorts of things, the days in the month. Like how, how can we get everything fit in and in the software world, um, none of that. Skill that I had in doing that really comes to play at all. Um, and so as a matter of fact, we have a very, very lean team.

And the leaner we are, I think we get more done. And so I think just from like an organizational dynamic perspective that really had to change. And, um, you know, the, the mindset of, you know, having a recurring revenue business with, you know, kind of subscribers as part of that is very different than like project.

Base work, which is what we were really focused on as well.

Natalie Nathanson: Right, right. Um, curious, you said you maybe underestimated the change a bit at the beginning. Was it really just sort of learning on the job or were there other There places or people or sources that you went to that kinda helped you as you were starting Spiro?

Adam Honig: So, um, a lot of people tried to help,

but

I think that it was ultimately just making, uh, you know, mistakes That was the best. Um, experience of it. I mean, I'm a big fan of, uh, the Saster model and Jason Lemkin and all of his stuff. I think it's been really great. And, you know, there's been a, we had, we, you know, we raised about $9 million to build Spiro and met a lot of great people through our investors.

And a lot of our investors had great experience. But I think, um, you know, I think that to go from a services company to a product company, I had to put my head in the right space before I could receive that. Uh, you know, understanding and I had to get there on my own, unfortunately. So it probably took me a little bit longer than somebody else who didn't have that, uh, you know, issue.

Natalie Nathanson: I sometimes, I said, uh, over the years, like we have a hard time learning from other people's mistakes. We often need to make them ourselves. Though the hope is even if you get like a fraction of what you're hearing from others and can save you from a couple of them, that's still, uh, there's still benefit in that.

Adam Honig: Well, like years later I'm like, oh, I remember this conversation we had and that's why that person brought it up, you know,

Natalie Nathanson: Right. Right. Yeah. Hindsight's 2020, but we have to learn on our own.

Adam Honig: exactly.

Natalie Nathanson: Uh, I'd love to hear a bit more about you, maybe pre uh, pre spiro preor organizations. Can you talk a little bit about, uh, your childhood, your background?

Did you know you'd be in kind of tech and, uh, these kinds of worlds, uh, someday? Tell me a little bit more about you.

Adam Honig: Yeah, well, I have a, um, a degree in philosophy. Which, you know, my father wasn't very pleased that I, that's what I was gonna study. 'cause he didn't feel like it had a lot of practical ramifications and it turns out it was true. Uh, and so he did try to convince me to take some business classes. So I took one marketing class and I dropped it 'cause it was so boring.

I mean, I don't know. Uh, but, you know, I, I was always sort of a. Guy who is good with technology. And so I wound up getting into tech just, you know, by default I guess, you know, so, uh, I've just always been somebody who's been able to look at technology and understand it and see how to apply it, and it turned out that that was a good skill for a consultant.

So that's how I kind of got going.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. And how did you make that decision to start your first venture?

Adam Honig: Oh, uh, so I was involved in starting a company. Uh, you know, so when I graduated college I worked for a consulting company and there were a bunch of really smart engineers there who, uh, were building a software product and they were like, Hey, you, you can speak in full sentences, you should run sales for us.

And I was like, okay, sounds good. And like we were all 25 at the time and, you know, didn't have a lot to lose. Uh, and so we were like, great, let's go start this company. Like who knew how bad it could be? And we wound up doing pretty well. We wound up, um, you know, taking that company public and ultimately selling it as a publicly traded company.

So, you know, it was some great experience there, but it was, I think, um, I think we just didn't know what the downside was. You know, we didn't have mortgages, we didn't have kids. There was just like a sense of fun about it. And I think I, I kind of feel like starting businesses is a little bit like buying a house.

Like once you've bought your first house, you're like, oh, okay, I know how that works, and I can sell that one and buy another one and kind of move up the, the value chain that way. And I, I feel like being an entrepreneur is the same way, but if, you know, if you're gonna wait until, you know, you have a lot of, uh, you know, financial commitments to do it, it's just a lot harder, you know?

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah,

I was talking to someone about that and kind of the, the fear like seems to ratchet up as you get older, right? You've got more to lose. You've got kids, you've got expenses.

Um,

there's a freedom, uh, to, uh, to starting, uh, when it's right when you've, you've got, uh, fewer, fewer responsibilities. And,

Adam Honig: I, I would say that on the flip side, I, I now have the perspective that I don't feel like there's anything particularly unrisky about working for a corporate company. You know, like they could decide to get rid of you at any time for no reason.

Uh, And,

you know, there's no guarantees of anything. And I would rather, I mean, you know, have the skills to, to get clients and build things on my own.

I think that's much safer than anything else. You know, and so, uh, people, when I talk to people about the risks, I, I think that they dramatically underestimate the risks of just having a job.

Natalie Nathanson: Well, and I think in today's environment, right, there's a lot of volatility, a lot of volatility anywhere, whether you're right, evolving a business you own, whether you're, uh, in the workforce and need to kind of push your own skill sets. Um, but I've had a similar sentiment to you. I, I like the fact that success and failure is on me, right?

Adam Honig: Yeah. totally,

Natalie Nathanson: not somebody else's decision.

Natalie Nathanson: curious how, uh, how the philosophy degree has, uh, factored in. Do you, do you ever think back to that? Do you think that still shapes any of your kind of thinking or way of working?

Adam Honig: Well, you know, I, I studied philosophy because I really wanted to understand truth. That was my, you know, epistemology was the thing that I really wanted to get into, and I, I feel

like, um, I walked away from my bachelor's degree in philosophy, so not like I have an advanced degree or anything, but my, my degree in philosophy with a, a feeling of disappointment in philosophy and that I felt like at the end of the day it was really all about language and it had a limited amount of connection to the real world.

I really wish that I'd actually studied engineering or something that was much more practical and connected to reality. So, um, you know, I, I think, you know, I would definitely make the argument that I feel like be studying philosophy made me, you know, more articulate about, you know, how to, you know, persuade people and to make an argument and see the assumptions that people are making in their, uh, arguments.

But, you know, I don't know. I, if I had to go back and do it all again, I, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't recommend philosophy.

You know, it was fun, but you know, ultimately, not sure about that.

Natalie Nathanson: Uh, though I think it is interesting, some of the folks that, uh, more recently have brought in some, uh, some like old world philosophy into modern dialogue.

I don't know if you, uh. know, uh, follow Ryan Holiday at all with

Adam Honig: I don't

Natalie Nathanson: Stoicism, uh, into the modern day. And he talks about, um, all of these, um, like the ancient stoics. Um,

Adam Honig: Oh, is he the guy who wrote the, the, the something is the way, or, um,

Natalie Nathanson: there's destiny. Uh, I don't remember the. The obstacle is the way

is the one that, yes. Yep.

Adam Honig: Yeah. Yeah. I've read that. I, I

enjoyed that,

you know?

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. He's had four or five on different kind of key principles of stoicism. And in some ways he is modernized them and brought them to the, the current discourse. In other ways. He's making the point that, uh, a lot of what the stoics were saying back then applies now, uh, just as much, right.

Ancient Greece and getting away from the hustle

and bustle

of the city. And how do you kind of keep your mind clear and things that, you know, you don't think of the, the hustle and bustle of ancient Greece, the way that we're navigating today's modern world, but, uh, a lot of the lessons do hold true. I find those really

interesting. I.

Adam Honig: Yeah, I, I, I, I read that I, I subscribed to a lot of his thinking as well, but I, I think you could look at any text and kind of make that sort of argument as well. Uh, you know, so, I mean, there's a lot of, a lot of smart people who wrote philosophy over the, the years. Uh, but you know, again, the practical benefit of a lot of these things is of question to me.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

Yep. Understood.

Um,

and would love to ask maybe a more introspective question, uh, as we near the end of our conversation, um, thinking about, you know, what you, what you know now, if you were sitting in a room with your younger self, uh, what would you tell yourself? Any advice?

Adam Honig: How much younger would I get to

be?

Natalie Nathanson: Uh, first, like, first leadership responsibilities?

Adam Honig: Yeah, first leadership responsibilities. Yeah, I mean, I think I took everything a little too personally at the start of my leadership career and, um, still can be a struggle, but I think I've it, you know, gotten past that and customers who didn't buy, or employees who you know, didn't agree with decisions, everything felt much more emotionally charged than it probably needed to.

Uh, and so I would say, you know, just to kinda be a little bit more chill with that kind of stuff, so maybe be more of stoic, you know,

to to see

it that way. Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Maybe then, maybe that's what I needed. I needed the obstacles away when I was like in my thirties or something like that.

Natalie Nathanson: Oh, There we go. There we go. Well, thank you. That, uh, feels like a perfect place to wrap, bringing it back around to that. And as we do that, can you, uh, let listeners know how they can reach you if they wanna get in touch?

Adam Honig: Sure. So, you know, I'm Adam Hoag on LinkedIn. Uh, you know, there are. Two other Adam OGs, but I'm the guy who really hates CRM. So if there's something about anti CRM or something like that, you've found the right guy, you could definitely email me@adamatspiro.ai. You know, if you're a manufacturing company and you're, you know, dissatisfied with all of the spreadsheets that you're probably using to keep track of your customers, we might have something to show you.

Uh, but uh, all of that can be found@spiro.ai.

Natalie Nathanson: Perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Adam Honig: Yeah, thanks

for inviting me on Natalie.

Natalie Nathanson: Um, and thank you too to everyone listening. I know I loved hearing about, uh, so many things that Adam shared, including how they, uh, narrowed, uh, Spiro's marketing and, uh, product focus and what that unlocked for the organization and the journey that he's been on.

Uh, so if today's episode gave you any valuable insights, and I'm sure that it did, please share this with someone. We know that sharing this kind of knowledge and information helps us all grow as leaders and drive towards successful organizational transformation. So thank you again, Adam, and this has been another wonderful conversation on Shift and Thrive.

I'll see you all next time.