Shift & Thrive: CEO Insights on Driving Change

S&T_Joe Campanella
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[00:00:00] In today's business world, change is the only constant, and mastering transformation is the ultimate key to success. Welcome to Shift and Thrive. I'm your host, Natalie Nathanson.

Each week we'll bring you conversations with CEOs who delve into how they successfully drove critical change in their organization. This show is sponsored by Magnitude Consulting, bringing you the thinking power of a growth consult. And the getting it done, power of a full service B2B marketing agency.

Natalie Nathanson: I am very excited to introduce today's guest. He is an executive and Go-to-market expert who has spent his career building, scaling, and leading companies through moments of real pressure and change. He's helped take companies from early traction to repeatable, scalable growth building and leading teams across sales, marketing, and customer operations.

During his time at a high growth digital [00:01:00] publishing company who underwent an intense FTC investigation, he channeled the hard earned lessons from that experience into building something new to help others avoid what he had to learn the hard way. This mission led him to launch his current venture, an AI powered compliance platform that helps businesses proactively review customer facing content for potential compliance risks before small mistakes become costly ones.

He is the CEO of Compile. Joe Campanella, welcome to the show.

Joe Campanella: Thank

you so much, Natalie. I'm really excited to speak with you today. I appreciate you having me as a guest on your

podcast.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Very, very glad to have you, and I know you've been through a pretty wild transformation story that really tested, uh, your ability to adapt and lead under pressure. So before we unpack that full story, I wanted to ask if you could, You know, preview for us, what are some of those big lessons that you learned from that experience?

Joe Campanella: Uh, yeah. So you were referring to, uh, our previous digital publishing company. We [00:02:00] endured an 18 month investigation with the Federal Trade Commission. Uh, probably the worst experience of our lives. It, it was, it was a huge learning experience, uh, but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. We made it through, uh, it really has helped us to launch our new businessly, uh, and we learned from those previous mistakes and, and really just how to set up and, and set yourself up for success, uh, in a, in a compliant way.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about what were some of those lessons that you learned through that experience? And I guess I'm thinking of things like, You know, how did you, uh, kinda manage your day to day throughout that? How did you work with other leaders in the organization? Anything, uh, of that nature that you, you gained from that experience?

Joe Campanella: Yeah, so, so we were in the digital publishing space. We were creating content, uh, and courses, programs, consulting programs, uh, You know, courses such as how to build your own email marketing business, how to create a YouTube channel [00:03:00] and monetize it. Uh, unfortunately we were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

We were in the make money online space. Uh, the FTC was targeting that, uh, You know, particular space. And, You know, they ended up investigating us. Uh, we, we thought we were doing, You know, the right thing and we were taking care of our consumers. Uh, our chargeback rates, refund rates, well below industry standards, taking care of our customers.

Uh, You know, could we. Marketed, You know, a little bit better. Absolutely. Right. You know, there's some things that we could have done a little bit better. Uh, but overall, You know, we felt that we were representing, You know, the company, uh, the, the proper way and also, uh, presenting our products and services to consumers and, and in a fair, uh, and, and realistic way.

Uh, but unfortunately the, You know, the FTC very nebulous in terms of, You know, the way that they, they view things. And so, uh, we did in, in, You know, endure an 18 month investigation. They went through, uh, all of our marketing. They went through all of our sales. Uh, those days were tough, You know, we were at during COVID, so we were on Zoom [00:04:00] calls for 5, 6, 7 hours a day.

With attorneys and, uh, You know, how to work through all of the due diligence of, of, You know, producing the content that we, uh, we had, You know, had for the previous three years. And so, yeah, we, at the end of the day, I mean, we, we learned a lot, You know, we, we, we ended up settling and paying a $2 million fine.

Uh, we ended up, uh, spending another few million dollars in legal fees. We had to shut down our business for a period of time, which is very difficult. We were over a hundred employees, went down to a skeleton crew of about 10 or 15 employees. Um, And so the lessons that we learned there were, You know, you really have to protect yourself, uh, and make sure that you are doing things in a compliant way.

And so this could be something as simple as on a sales call, making sure that you're doing a proper introduction, which, which we were, uh, You know. Hi, my name is Joe Campanella. Uh, You know, I'm with Comply Lee. The purpose of our call today is to discuss the Comply Lee platform. Uh, I do wanna let You know that today's call is being recorded.

I hope that's okay. That is a [00:05:00] proper sales call introduction. Now, we were doing that, uh, but ultimately for us, our investigation came down to, uh, something that our sales reps were saying. They had, uh, asked a simple question,~ Natalie, uh, tell me a little bit your business. What are you looking to do over the next six to nine months?~

~Uh, and in the eyes of the FTC, they viewed that as, as, um, uh, they viewed that as a, uh, um, uh,~

~we'll~

~have to cut that out. Uh, lemme start over again. So, um.~

~Eye.~

~So we, our sales team was asking a very simple question. ~They were asking the consumers, uh, You know, Natalie, tell me a little bit about your business.

What are you looking to do over the next, uh, six to nine months? And in the eyes of the FTC, they view that question as goal setting and goal setting is considered an FTC violation. Uh, And so unbeknownst to us, um, the FTC ended up going back for a period of three years and finding us for every single one of those phone calls, uh, where we asked that question.

So there are things that we've learned, You know, after going through the investigation, um, that really has helped us to be a much more compliant, better company moving forward. And really was the catalyst to starting our new business Comply, which is an AI power compliance platform, reviews, marketing, sales content, uh, affiliate content for FTC compliance.

So we wanna make sure that what, what happened to us doesn't happen to, uh, other [00:06:00] founders, other business owners, uh, and that has been a, uh, a big mission of ours, uh, since the investigation.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, Yeah. well, I think it's ama, I can only imagine what you went through in that experience, but to kind of take that and now, You know, build something that'll help others, uh, not have to go through that, I think is amazing.

And I do wanna talk a little bit later in the conversation about kinda what are some of those, uh, compliance lessons that other leaders should be more aware of. So I will get back to that. Um, I also am just thinking, You know, from your standpoint, I'm thinking like, a lot of leaders maybe would've crumbled under that kind of pressure, and especially, uh, You know, knowing it was during, during the pandemic,

You know, what

did you do for yourself as a leader?

Like, how did you keep yourself grounded through that, You know, anything you were telling yourself to, uh, to kinda go through that period, uh, the way that you wanted to, that other leaders might benefit from hearing?

Joe Campanella: Well, I, I think the biggest thing is, is the core foundation of, of our company. I mean, our, our founder, Onyx Ngal. I mean, You [00:07:00] know, as bad as it was for us, uh, You know, being on the, the executive leadership team, I mean, he was a sole founder of the business, so, You know, it was 10 times worse for him and his family, what he had to endure.

But I think what really helped us is we had a really strong team. Uh, and that starts with our, our, our founder on Ngal, You know, just to be able to work with him and our CFO and, and the rest of the team that was just, we were really grounded because you do, you feel beat up, You know, you feel, You know, when you're getting told every day that you're doing things, You know, uh, You know, not doing things the right way.

And, and, You know, you're, you're, You know, in the eyes of the FTC, You know, you're looked at as, as doing things in a noncompliant way. You start believing it. And, and, and again, I'm not sitting here saying that, You know, there weren't improvements we could have made from a, from a compliance standpoint. Um, but for us it was having that, at least for me, having that core team that we knew that we can count on each other really helped us get through those difficult dark days.

It, it was, there were some dark days. I mean, there were days we weren't sure if the business [00:08:00] was gonna succeed. Uh, there were times we thought we'd have to completely shut it down. Um, but I think, again, having that strong leadership, uh, and the strong core that

we had is

really what propelled us and kept us through that difficult time.

And so for me personally, it was, You know, taking time out of the day to, to go, go for a walk, get a workout in, go for a run, to clear your head, uh, and knowing that. You know, this is just a moment in time. Um, there is a way through this and it's just, you have to make sure that you break it down and take one day at a time.

Like any type of difficult situation, you've gotta break it down a very complicated, uh, You know, complicated problem into smaller parts. And that's exactly what we did. It was one battle at a time and we focused on one thing at a time. And, You know, you gotta get to step A to B2C before you get to FG and h And if you take that approach, you can kind of take that, You know, tempered approach of making sure that.

You know, we're doing things the right way. Um, [00:09:00] we are doing things in such a way that we're not getting ahead of ourselves. Uh, because again, you're, you're gonna have good days and bad days and I, I would encourage any founder or business owner that's going through, You know, a challenge, whether it's a, an investigation or, or even a, a business challenge is take it one day at a time.

I mean, that, that sounds so cliche. Uh, but you need to focus on one thing at a time. You can't be focused on three or four or five priorities, one or two priorities. And once you're able to work through that, I know for us that was really important. 'cause we focused on one or two things and then once we were able to overcome that, we moved on to the next thing.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I think that's great advice. Um, I think of, um, You know, running a, running a marathon, I'll take as a parallel, if you think at the start line of, oh man, I still have these 26.2 miles ahead of me. It's overwhelming, it's daunting. All of that. And, but if you say, okay, just one, one foot in front of the other, or, You know, one mile, uh, one mile, uh, to kind of build from, um, you kind of take it [00:10:00] piece by piece.

I heard, uh, on a podcast recently, and I might butcher this a little bit, but they were talking about, uh, think about a, B and Z. So you don't take the whole alphabet at once, right? Uh, but what's the first thing you do? The next thing, and then ultimately, like, where do you need to get to?

Joe Campanella: The, the longest, the journeys begin with the single step. Right.

And

if that, that marathon reference, you just keep saying, You know, Hey, just one, one more step, You know, one more mile. You know, there were times when we thought we couldn't do this, but we kept saying, Hey, You know what, just one more day, just one more week.

You know, we, we got one more month. Let's, let's, let's keep, and you keep saying that to yourself and before You know it, six months have passed, nine months have passed, and, and, and you're through. You know, the only way, the only way out is through. There's no way around it. You have to go through it. And that is something that I learned, You know, through this experience and, and our team learned, is you have to go through it.

Uh, and then once you're through it, you're on the other side.

Natalie Nathanson: Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I don't know if You know, [00:11:00] uh, or follow like Ryan Holiday at all with the Daily Stoic And kind of modernizing Stoicism, but

Joe Campanella: Every Day I I I uh, The Daily newsletter. Yep.

Natalie Nathanson: Oh, he is, he is great. Um, and I'm thinking of his book, the Obstacle As The Way, when you just said The only way, the only way Out is through is, um, both, right. Keep, keep pushing, uh, through like you said, uh, but then

surprise yourself

with what that drives and, You know, perfect example for you of Right.

It really led to, uh, starting completely.

Joe Campanella: Yeah. And, and it, it really did help us to, to start to comply the business going through that pain. And, and, You know, for us, which is really important, I, I've always thought, You know, you can al you always know who the leader is in, in, in a, in a fire, You know, situation. The, the leader, whoever they may be, is always the one, while everyone is running around frantic, they are calm, they're giving clear, You know, direction.

Uh, they have a plan. Uh, and, and that is really important when you're going through, You know, some sort of. You know, [00:12:00] crisis, like what we went through is making sure that all team members were all on the same page. It was a paramount for us on the senior leadership team and our founder to make sure that we were clearly communicating, uh, and being upfront with our, our team members of exactly what was going on.

Because you need to keep that morale up. It's very difficult when you're in that situation. Uh, and, and again, the, the really good leaders, the true leaders out there, there's, they're the ones that can see, You know, through the forest. They're the ones that are staying calm and understand that this is only a moment in time.

We will get through this. You know, we just have to stick together. And that was kind of really our mantra.

Natalie Nathanson: Oh, and

we're talking Alon about kinda leadership under pressure, and I'd love to zoom out now a bit. Um, I know you've had Alon of different leadership experience throughout your career, so I wanted to hear a bit about, You know, how do you describe your leadership style and, You know, has it evolved over time and how.

Joe Campanella: Yeah, it, it, it really has evolved over time. Uh, You know, going from, You know, my late [00:13:00] twenties, early thirties when I was a co-founder of a student loan and a debt settlement business, I was really in over my head. I had managed people before, but never really led, You know, a, a team or organization before.

Uh, And so, You know, yeah, yeah, I've, I've made Alon of mistakes. I, as I like to say, I, I paid the idiot tax more than a few times, and I feel like you have to go through that. In order to understand and grow. Uh, so yeah, I think early on it was just, You know, You know, my mantra has always been, You know, just keep trying something.

If it's not working, You know, pivot and try something else. But, You know, you can't paralysis by analysis and sit and, and not do anything. And so my leadership style has always been one of, of, of directness. I've always been very straightforward and honest with, uh, You know, with my team members. Um, You know, that's just, You know, I, I like to have fun.

I like to play hard and, and work hard. Uh, and I think when you treat people with respect and let 'em know that, hey, we're here. To do a job, uh, but doesn't mean we can't have fun while we're doing it. You know, let's, let's play some music. You know, let's bring in, [00:14:00] uh, You know, and, and have an omelet guy come in in the morning to, You know, make breakfast for everybody.

Let's bring in a masseuse to, You know, to, to de-stress us, You know, throughout the day. Uh, let's do some fun activities. And so, uh, I think my leadership style has definitely grown over the years, and I think that's just, again, being natural. Very early on, I think I tried to take on a little too much. And as I've gotten older, I've realized, You know, true leadership is really understanding that you have to be able to let go of responsibility.

You, you can't, in the very beginning when you're starting a business, it's very easy once you and your founder or co-founder or You know, you have a couple of business partners to do everything, You know, uh, but as you scale and grow, it's just not possible. And you have to put faith and trust in your, your team, uh, in order to grow.

So for me. It was more about, I think over time growing and trusting that, You know, it's okay to let You know certain job responsibilities and things go. 'cause that's the only way that you can scale. And then you can mentor, You know, other team members. And [00:15:00] so for me, uh, I've always loved, You know, when a team member's come to me with a challenge and, and say, I, I just don't think we're gonna be able to do this.

And when you work together with a team member and help them accomplish something that they didn't originally think that they would be able to do, there's no greater joy as a mentor, as a leader to see that happen. And then to see them implement that with their own team, with someone else is, is, is Yvonne.

And You know, now you're 10 X-ing uh, You know, the performance. And that's really cool to see.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, for sure. I'm curious how you think about letting go, and I know for, uh, some, but probably Alon of us, uh, leaders, CEOs, uh, it can be easier said than done sometimes. Is there a certain approach that you take?

Kinda how do you decide like when is the time to let go? How. Far back, do you step and How quickly? Anything around that realm you can share?

Joe Campanella: Yeah, that, that is a tricky one because most leaders, most CEOs, uh, yeah, it is a type A personality, right? So you, you're a little bit of a control freak. Um, You know, that's, [00:16:00] that's where you're, you're most comfortable. But it's also not healthy for the organization. Uh, when you're so dialed in, again, in the beginning, I think you do need to be dialed in to understand every facet and aspect of the business.

But over time, that becomes a hindrance as you start scaling. If you're literally tied in as a, as a leader or business owner, uh, to everything, you're the bottleneck. You're, you're not gonna be able to scale and grow, uh, because You know, everything has to run through you. And so I've always, You know, good rule of thumb for me, You know, a good mentor told me that anytime you can.

You can have someone do what you can do to about 75% of your ability, that's about the time to, to give them that task or give them that responsibility. Uh, because it's like the old book multipliers. You can now, You know, let's say like for instance, early on in my career, my responsibility was building the sales team.

So I was out there, um, You know, hiring, so I was hiring, interviewing, I was training the sales team, I was managing the sales team, I was listing the sales calls, [00:17:00] helping them out. You know, you have five, seven reps. Yeah, you can do that, even 10. But as you start scaling to 20, 30, 50, a hundred, it's impossible to do that effectively.

And so you have to be able to relinquish some of those responsibilities to others, right. Okay. Maybe we need to hire someone that's gonna handle recruiting. Uh, now that I've got, You know, my training under, under my belt, maybe we hire a trainer that can now train the sales team. And so it's again, being comfortable and understanding.

That is, that's the, that's the, the true test of a leader. Do You know, and it's hard to define when it is time to finally relinquish, You know, responsibility. Um, but there is something freeing when you do that. And when you're able to do that and have, now you're able to do other things because you've don't have that responsibility burden anymore.

And that, and that's, if you really want to be a true leader and you want your company to scale and grow, you're gonna have to be comfortable with change. You're gonna have to be comfortable with, with giving up the responsibility, uh, in order to grow.

Natalie Nathanson: I like that litmus [00:18:00] test of the 75% metric. I think that's a, that's a good one. And it, I think of the, uh, the phrase only do what only you can do, which sometimes can be easier said than done. But to your point, it's a, it's a process.

Joe Campanella: It is,

it is a process. That's exactly right. We're not looking for perfection. We're looking for progress. Um, that is really something that hit hits home.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. I'm curious, are there any areas, uh, in your current day to day, like things that you're planning for or trying to shift, uh, kinda where you're focused versus elsewhere on the team?

Joe Campanella: Yeah, for sure. So on, on the, on the Comply Lee side, You know, I, I'm trying to shift my focus more on the bigger business development deals and getting out of the more, the day-to-day, uh, You know, subscription sales. Um, now that we've got a sales team, uh, together, and it's, again, it's, it's hard because I'm used to pitching a certain way, uh, Alon of our early clients, You know, and legacy clients are used to dealing with me as the CEO, but as you grow and scale that, that's just not possible.

[00:19:00] Um, so now, uh, that's where I'm seeing that shift, where I'm focusing now on the, on the bigger picture business development deals. Uh, and the more of the, the monthly subscription basis, uh, deals are going down to our sales team. So, uh, I probably held onto that a little too long. Uh, but, uh, again, You know, we're in a good position now where I can focus on the.

You know, the, the bigger partnership, uh, side of the, of the business.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I've been thinking Alon lately of what are kind of the even very like tactical, like operational things that are making it harder for me to step back in certain areas, like Slack as an example. If there's certain Slack channels that I'm on, I can't help but read something. I can't help but responding.

And before I know it, I'm in that area where I didn't need to be. Right. The team had it covered. They knew what they were doing. Um, so thinking of like, what are those areas that can, can trip you up as a way of, uh, eliminating that.

Joe Campanella: Another thing that I've learned over my years as a leader is sometimes I was always very quick to [00:20:00] jump in and provide an answer, provide a solution. Uh, and that's not always good because then your team ultimately is going to, You know, look to you to solve the problems. And so I, I started realizing that if I didn't respond immediately, Alon of times, You know, after a certain period of time, maybe an hour, the team would actually figure it out on their own.

And there are some, there, there's something to be said about that, of, Hey, You know, this is, You know, I don't have to respond immediately and, and come in and, and be that problem solver. And so the way that I've always taught my team members is, You know, don't, no one wants to, You know, have, You know, problems brought to them, right?

So whether it's a CEO, it's a leader of a division. I've always told our, our, our team members. You're gonna run into problems and we're here to support, I'm here to support you. Uh, but don't just bring me a problem, You know, identify the problem for me, but maybe have two or three potential solutions in mind.

Now, they may not be anywhere near the right solution, but I can tell you as a leader, the fact that you've ha put someone, put some thought into a potential [00:21:00] solutions doesn't make it as daunting when it, when it comes through. So I always tell people, if you're gonna bring a problem to someone, whether it is a peer, uh, um, You know, a CEO, a leader, uh, make sure to bring a couple potential solutions, and then you can work through that together with them.

And that's Alon less daunting than, and we've got, You know, we, we have an issue right now. We have a no-show issue on the sales team. I have no idea why. You know, no leader wants to hear that. That's another problem that they've gotta worry and think about opposed to, Hey, we're running into an issue with no shows with our sales calls the last three weeks.

I think it could be one of these two things I'm thinking about doing X, Y, and Z. What are your thoughts? That's a much more productive conversation than. We have a no-show issue and I don't know what to do.

Natalie Nathanson: Yes, for sure. And I think that's something, uh, everyone can benefit from. I think even in that process of like framing up the problem, providing all of that context and then kinda the potential solutions.

Half the battle I think is in just getting clarity on that. So just kinda the benefit of working [00:22:00] through that before you're kind of starting that next conversation.

Joe Campanella: Yeah, for sure.

Natalie Nathanson: I wanna shift gears a bit. I know you have a, uh, breadth of experience on, uh, the Go-to-market side of businesses. Uh, I wanna hear from you like when companies are going through a major shift, uh, what are the most important things to be thinking about doing, et cetera, on the Go-to-market side?

Joe Campanella: Yeah. So for me personally, when you talk about a Go-to-market strategy, I, I think the very first thing you have to look at is, is what is your ICP? Right? Right. What, what does the ideal client look like? Uh, because you can go off on all these different tangents and, and,

and if you

don't really identify who you're trying to market to you, you can't be everything to everyone.

And I think as leaders, sometimes we think we can, um, but that's not always possible.

And

so when you're talking about a Go-to-market strategy, I think the very first thing you need to do is really think about. Who is the ideal customer that we're gonna try to, uh, [00:23:00] solve a problem for? What is our, what is our platform?

What does our service do? What type of need are we fulfilling? And once you identify that ICP, now you can start talking about, well, how do we, where can we find those type of individuals or businesses? Uh, how do we market to them? Uh, what type of strategies do we need to put in place? And I see Alon of companies and, and we, I, I was to blame too, right?

Like early on in my career, uh, with our businesses, it was, oh yeah, we're gonna hit everybody up. We've got all these great ideas. And you end up running around with a chicken, with your head cut off without a, a real strategy. And that becomes a real problem too, when you start scaling. If you don't have a process, You know, that's rentable, repeatable, and you have it down, you're not gonna be able to scale.

So that, to me, that's the most important piece when you're talking about Go-to-market strategy. And of course, again, the old adage, we talked about this a little bit earlier, you can only have. You know, it's really two to three priorities at max. A, a as a, as a company, as a, as a leader, anything more than that and your [00:24:00] time is gonna be pulled in different directions.

So I've really tried to stick to that. You know, we've got two or three priorities. This is what we're focused on. So if we've got, You know, in our case worth complying, we're focusing on these two or three markets, or these two or three types of, uh, businesses, and yes, we can identify and attack these other areas, but let's be best in class here first, and then we can kind of go in and, and and, and scale and go into other areas.

So that I think is really important.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, and I think it really does just set the backdrop for so much, right? It's right. Those markets that you, that you start with looking at what does that audience, uh, the users, what does their day to day look like? Where do they go online for information? How do they make decisions?

Um, and sometimes having those kinda mini like marketing and sales plans for different segments of your ICP because they might operate differently. And I'm curious to hear maybe at compile, like how have you looked at selecting your market focus?

Joe Campanella: So, so

for us it [00:25:00] was, You know, at least early on we, we stuck in our wheelhouse, right? So, uh, comply Lee, it, it really was just an idea. Uh, You know, our, our founder, uh, of, of, You know, a digital publishing company, and we were having a conversation right when we were ready to relaunch the business. We had a new offer.

He created a new webinar. It's about a four hour webinar. We actually ended up sending it over to our FTC attorney for review. Um, You know, he was busy. It took him a week or two to review and cost us about $5,000 to, uh, for him to review it.

And my

founder and I just looked at each other and we're like, I mean, this is crazy.

Like we, we can't move. We're in digital publishing, we're in the digital marketing space. Like this is way too long. There, there, there has to be a much more efficient, faster way of reviewing, uh, marketing and sales content for, for FTC compliance. And so it was right around the time chat, CPT came out. We started messing around with the little script and, and messing around with uh, You know, just some, You know, internal, uh, You know, project.

And that was kind of before we knew it was comply. That's what we started building. Uh, and we thought [00:26:00] it was gonna be an internal tool for us to use at our digital publishing company to review marketing and sales content and very quickly. Uh, people, You know, partners had found out about, they wanted to see it, they thought it was great.

And, and very quickly we realized we've got a real business here. Uh, so for us, that's where kind of compile was birthed was from our pain, uh, and what we went through. And, You know, that was, You know, kind of where it started. So once compile, You know, became a real business, we, we started in our playground, right?

Digital publishing people that we knew, course creators. Um, so that's, that's, You know, those are the initial clients that we ended up starting to work with. We ended up going to a conference where just so happened to be, there was a major, uh, health and wellness client there that love we are presenting.

They love what we had. They're a over a hundred million dollar health and wellness company. Started working with them and lo and behold, they helped us kind of build out, You know, that that vertical. And so we have quite a few, quite a bit of, uh, health and wellness clients and [00:27:00] supplement businesses that are using our software to review their content for FTC compliance, making sure that there's not performance claims or absolute statements being made by their supplements.

And so that's really where we started, uh, You know, digital publishing, financial publishing, You know, the financial, uh, world, just because that's what we knew. Uh, and then we started kind of branching out from there. So for us, it was a, it was more of a convenience thing of the people that we knew and in our sphere of influence.

And then, You know, slowly but surely we started branching out.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, makes sense. And I think there are different approaches for kind of how to look at that market focus, right? Like ideally, right? You're looking at, You know, strategically where all the markets we could play, who has the greatest need for our solution, which of those are growing and shrinking and right.

So there's kind of the, the more science side of like the art and science to, to look at. But then I always talk to clients about like, what are the assets at your disposal? Like, where do you have your networks? Where do you have connections? Right? Where in the realities of a startup and needing to [00:28:00] drive, You know, traction quickly, uh, what can you utilize to your benefit?

And then reacting to the market, which you talked about, right? If, if people are telling you like, oh, this, you've got something here, you wanna pay attention to that. And, uh, that might shift, You know, where your plans were initially.

Joe Campanella: The market speaks volumes a hundred percent. And one of my favorite quotes comes from Mike Tyson, the,

the

the Hall of Fame boxer who said, everyone's got a game plan until they get punched in the mouth, right? And so I think the really great leaders. Are quick to pivot. And so they will roll out very quickly.

Like our, our, our founder, You know, Onyx Ngal, very quick to roll things out, but he is also very quick to pivot and realizing, You know what, this isn't working. That's okay. We're gonna, we're gonna move and do something else. And the market will tell you, You know, your customers will tell you, uh, You know, if, if it's like pulling teeth trying to get clients to come in, or, You know, in our case, I came from the debt settlement world.

I co-founded a debt settlement business. I reached out to my contacts in that world. And so we have a bunch of debt settlement, uh, [00:29:00] clients that use our software to, uh, review their sales calls. Um, You know, that was just, that was a no brainer for us. So when it's not working, you can figure that out. And it's just quick to make sure that you pivot, right, because you're gonna have a game plan and you need a game plan.

But you have to realize that, You know, most of the time it, it's a moving target

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah,

Right. Well, and I think in today's, today's world, things are changing faster than, than they have before. So that openness and ability to, uh, listen to the market and shift, uh, is more important than it's ever been.

Joe Campanella: Oh, for sure. Uh, business is moving in light speed now. Right. With, with ai and, and You know, you, you have the computer age, the internet age, and now we're in this AI age. So, um, yeah, it's, things are moving extremely, extremely quickly when business.

Natalie Nathanson: Uh, it's a great segue because I did wanna talk a bit about ai, and I know AI plays a big role in your platform, uh, which we touched on a little.

Would love to, uh, go back to that in a, in a few minutes. Um, [00:30:00] but interested to hear kind of you as kind of CEO, like are, are you using AI in your Like how are you using it personally, I guess, differently than, uh, kinda the platform?

Joe Campanella: Yeah. So it, it is, it, our platform is an AI powered platform and, and it's really, truly amazing what you can do with AI and, and the large language models and, and. How fast you can process and train them. And so on the personal level, yes, I, I am using AI on a personal level. Uh, I love using Google's nano banana.

Uh, when you are, You know, I've got an idea and I'm not sure how to create an image for it. You can go to Nano Banana and it, it'll do it for you. Uh, Google Notebook, LM is, is. Awesome. If you're not using it, I highly recommend it. Uh, you can go in and, and really it's a, it's a brain dump of whether it's, You know, websites, uh, data and information that you have, videos, uh, et cetera.

You can put that into, into the notebook. And it's almost like having, uh, a partner there to kind of think for you, and it'll create [00:31:00] training material for you. It'll create ideas, scripting, And so, You know, I'll do a whole brain dump of maybe a project that I'm working on or thinking about, You know, uh, doing like, again, Go-to-market strategy and then it'll spit out, uh, some really great documentation for me and, uh, thought provoking information too.

So, uh, AI is a big part of, I think most of the, the employees, uh, at our business. Uh, just because we're so focused on it with our platform that it's, it's almost impossible not to be using it in our everyday kind of business, You know, day to day.

Natalie Nathanson: Right,

right. I, I'm interested that you brought up, uh, notebook lm I was just talking to someone this morning about some of the ways that, that we're using it.

Um, and just, uh, last week I had a colleague that had kind of taken all of our, uh, uh, client sales conversations and then done some kind of chatting within Notebook lm and looking for themes for kind of sales enablement and where deals getting stuck and what other kind of bigger opportunities might be out there.

And it was tremendous, like what came back and what new [00:32:00] ideas that spawned. Um, and that's one of like a, You know, myriad of, of use cases for it

Joe Campanella: How quickly you're getting a response, right? The, so in the old days, you would have a conversation with, let's say I need to find an expert in whatever, You know, whatever problem that you were dealing with. You know, you, Hey, You know, I, I wanna learn how to do Google ads. Let me talk to an expert and figure out what that Go-to-market strategy is gonna look like, or how should I.

How should I scale my, You know, 10 person sales team to 50? Well, you go out and you find an expert, you talk to someone who's done it before, it takes time and well now you're condensing that time, right? You're dumping all the information that you have into, into notebook, and then you're getting real time feedback.

So it's just, again, the way that information is processed now is so much faster, uh, than it used

to be.

And, and we're really just scratching the surface when it comes to ai, and I'm sure you've seen it, I've seen it too on the, in social media and LinkedIn where, You know, the majority of people that think they're using AI are just using chat, CPT and, and using it as a Google [00:33:00] search.

There, there is so much more to AI and things that you can do in your everyday life, personal life, and, and as well as business, uh, to help you, uh, do what you need to do much more efficiently.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I, I know some of the analysts will say like, if the tech, uh, if the technology froze where it is now, like we still have like easily five or 10 years of like catching up to do, uh, let alone the moving target that we know is the, uh, industry changing and advancing fast around us.

Joe Campanella: Yeah,

it's, it's, it's exciting for sure.

Hey, this is Natalie, your Shift and Thrive host. After chatting with lots of CEOs, one thing is crystal clear. Leveling up your company means having a killer Go-to-market strategy. That's what my crew at Magnitude Consulting does every day. If you're trying to step up your marketing game, whether it's strategizing, accelerating your pipeline, expanding into new markets, or getting into AI and automation, let's talk.

[00:34:00] No pitch, no pressure. Just good conversation. Visit shift and thrive podcast.com/natalie to schedule a time. Can't wait to connect.

Natalie Nathanson: I'd love to talk a little bit more now about compile and we're talking about, You know, transformation. Um, what are the transformations that your clients are going through and kind of how does that dovetail with, You know, places where compile helps them adapt?

I.

Joe Campanella: Yeah. So I'll go back to the, um. You know, to the, the, the, uh, uh, sales perspective and, You know, having a, uh, a debt settlement company, right? Being a co-founder in that business years ago, uh, and any sales team, right? One of the, the biggest pain taking responsibilities of a VP of sales or director of sales is monitoring your sales calls and their software out there, right?

That is, uh, that will transcribe, You know, uh, the audio from a sales call and it'll provide, You know, keywords and things of that nature. Uh, but there isn't any software out there that is strategically taking that audio, [00:35:00] transcribing it, and then we're using multiple LLMs or large language models to really process and analyze that, that sales call.

To make sure that that call is compliant in accordance with the FTC. And so our, our FTC attorney has told us, You know, the FTC, they really, they, they can sue you for a number of different reasons, but typically it comes down to the same 20 or 25 or so violations. Uh, things like making earnings claims, absolute statements, um, You know, improper call introductions.

And so what we did is we used AI to specifically code our platform, uh, to identify these most common, uh, violations that the FTC looks for. Uh, and I gotta tell you, it wasn't easy. You know, it takes Alon of time and data to train these large language models. At one point in time, I had. You know, put together with my founder, it was like a 400, 4 50 page technical document to share with our prompt engineers.

Because an, an earnings claim in, let's say the digital public publishing space or financial space is much different than a performance claim in the health and wellness [00:36:00] space. So it takes large amounts of real time data and real data, not, You know, um, synthetic data. It, oh, large language models hate synthetic data.

It needs to be actual real data. And so, um, once it's processing all that information, it just, it, it, it, it's, it's, You know, just a game changer. So in the case of, let's say a, a team that's has to go through, or VP of sales, it has to review their sales calls. For them to manually go through a call, right?

They're getting it transcribed. They're manually going through an hour 45 minute call. It could take them an hour and a half, two hours. Well, now we have automation set up where you can have a CRM, like a Zoom, a Salesforce, where those sales calls are automatically uploaded into compile. They're reviewed, they're analyzed.

They will produce A-A-P-D-F, You know, an actual real time report for someone to go in and, and it'll catch those potential warnings and violations. So not only violations, clear cut violations, but potential warnings like trigger terms or trigger words. [00:37:00] Things where if you're saying, You know, step by step, which isn't necessarily an FTC violation, but the FTC, they don't like that term step by step, You know, or easy, You know, things that, where you're.

Giving the impression that something is so easy. So, You know, there are ways that a, again, a sales manager can go in and, and, and review something in a matter of 15 minutes, not two hours. Uh, and it just completely changes their day. Now they're not spending, You know, their entire day reviewing sales calls or maybe spot checking.

They can now go through and review much more, You know, sales calls. You know, many more of the sales reps. Uh, they're making sure that they're being compliant. They're preventing, uh, any type of, uh, issues moving forward. It's a much better experience for the customer, uh, where, You know, they're getting a, a, a customer experience that is one that is, is not, uh, leading them down the wrong path.

And so that's just kind of one use case where, You know, is making, [00:38:00] uh, businesses, You know, and, and helping them from a business perspective. On the flip side, on the marketing side, think about a. Let's say a copywriter that is writing copy for, You know, a digital publishing company. Um, again, same type of thing.

If there may be some earnings claims in there, or absolute statements. If you're making claims about a certain stock, You know, uh, with a return, You know, that could come up as an issue. Well, now you have comply. We can review that, that data or, or a three or four hour webinar in a matter of, You know, five, 10 minutes.

Or in the case of a, You know, a, a, a sales page in the matter of, You know, 30 to 60 seconds, you're now reducing that manual review time tremendously. So you're protecting yourself against, uh, any type of state or, or federal regulatory, um, You know, uh, uh, You know, issue as well as a much faster review time for your internal team.

So now. You know, those copywriters, those, those VPs of sales, uh, they can now spend their time, uh, [00:39:00] in a, a more targeted area and not stuck in the mundane, You know, kind of reviewing content. So that, that's kind of two use cases where we're using AI to, uh, review content at a much that much more efficient rate, a much faster rate.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, and I would think it takes Alon of the pressure off the user. So it's both, uh, kind of mitigating that risk, uh, for the leadership, but also the user kinda has some of that assurance that, uh, there's like another check for what they're putting out.

Joe Campanella: So, so, You know, Natalie, you hit the nail right on the head. Um, You know. Our software, even an FTC attorney can never fully insulate you and guarantee you'll never be investigated by a state of regulatory agency. Uh, but the purpose of comply is, is to mitigate your risk, You know, just to, You know, to the low hanging fruit of some things that you may not be aware of, to make sure that You know, you are not on the FTCs radar, that you are presenting your products and services in an honest, fair way.

Uh, again, you'll never fully mitigate [00:40:00] risk. Um, but this is a way that to, You know, or fully eliminate risk, but this is a way to mitigate it. Uh, And so our clients are, are extremely happy with a, like you said, You know, from a risk standpoint, they feel Alon more comfortable with the content that they're putting out there, the things that their sales reps are saying.

And two, uh, their team members now much more efficient in what they're doing in their day to day.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I think the, the other good news with that is right, these same kinds of things work better for the target audience, right? Buyers are so hypersensitive to anything that sounds too good to be true or these kind of, uh, an over the top statements.

And so it also helps to kinda, you're rooting that message in credibility, uh, that just supports the selling and marketing efforts, uh, more broadly.

Joe Campanella: And,

and ultimately what, what we ended up finding is you end up finding and getting better, You know, better customers. And what I mean by that is, the old way of marketing and selling was that hypey kind of marketing and sales, uh, like you just mentioned. [00:41:00] And, um, that's not always good for the client or the customer.

You know, you wanna make sure that their expectations, at least from my experience, the, the biggest piece of customer success is managing expectations on the front end. And so, if, if you're doing that effectively, you're gonna have a much better experience. And what we notice is when we start taking out some, maybe more of the hype, You know, marketing items, or even on the sales side, You know, oh my gosh, I, I can't, I can't sell by, You know, talking about a, a customer that.

Did buy our program and is making $10,000 a month and that we have documentation that that actually happened. Well, yes, you, you can say that Only if you can prove that that is the average return that your average customer over a certain period of time, You know, received or is producing if you can. And most customers, our companies cannot do that.

You know, you really need to remove that. And we noticed when we removed those type of results based testimonials, we didn't see a drop in in conversion really at all. I mean, maybe initially because it's the sales reps getting used to. Selling a different way. Uh, but the reality is you're getting [00:42:00] customers that aren't coming in on the hype.

So you, you're getting, you're creating more long-term value. You're getting customers that are there because of the product. Um, and they, they're staying on longer. You're, your, your refund rates, uh, uh, your, um, uh, chargebacks, You know, are gonna go down because now you're bringing on a customer that wasn't sold on the hype.

You know, so we, we've learned that you get a, a much better customer with a longer, uh, LTV, right. That that lifetime value of that customer is longer.

Natalie Nathanson: Yes, for sure. I'm very well said. I could go, I could go on on, on that topic for, for a long time. But, uh, with the time we have left, I, I wanna learn a little bit more about you. So can you talk a little bit about yourself? You know, who were you as a child? Did You know you'd be in this kind of a professional arena someday?

Tell me about yourself.

Joe Campanella: Yeah. So, uh, I don't know if people necessarily want to hear about it, but, uh, yeah. I, I, I, um. I was always an outgoing person. You know, my, my, my father owned his own business, so I [00:43:00] think at some level I knew that I, I wanted to be an entrepreneur. Uh, I do tell a story when I was a kid in, in elementary school, uh, where I used to, my mom would take us to, um, You know, take us to ShopRite and grocery store, and we'd be able to get one thing.

And so I would buy this $5 bag of candy, and I would take that candy and I, I would sell it for 50 cents a piece to my classmates during lunch hour. And, You know, I turned that $5, uh, You know, into, uh, into $50, uh, You know, because I was able to sell 'em at 50 cents a piece. And so, um, You know, I, at some point I, I knew I wanted to, to, You know, kind of be in.

An entrepreneur. Um, And so I've just, I, I've always enjoyed talking with people. I've always enjoyed engaging, uh, with individuals, helping others. Uh, I love to mentor people, so I, I've, I have two kids. I have a, a 11-year-old son, a 10-year-old daughter. Uh, they're into sports. I've coached both of them and in numerous sports.

And, and I love just watching them play. It [00:44:00] excites me. I grew up playing Alon of sports. Um, And so I think that that team camaraderie is very similar to a business. You know, you're, you're building a team. Uh, And so did I know that I was, You know, gonna be a leader someday? Probably not. Um, but I think some of that is kind of innate.

And early on at, at a young age, uh, I was very lucky. You know, I had parents that, uh, that really supported me, family members that supported us and encouraged us to, to, to make mistakes, to fail, to grow, uh, to try things that were new. And so that's something that was always instilled in me at, at an early age of.

Hey, You know, try as many new things as you can, You know, because, uh, life is full of new experiences and you're not always gonna succeed at everything, and that's okay. Uh, and I think learning at an early age, and, and I'm a big fan of sports 'cause I think sports teaches young people, uh, how to win, how to lose gracefully, how to overcome challenges, uh, because you're not always gonna win.

You're not always [00:45:00] gonna succeed. What do you do when you get knocked down? Like in our case with the FTC, we could have just gave up and crawled and, and went away. But no, we, we we're all fighters and, and we just looked at this as another opportunity to get back up and, and, and be successful. Uh, And so I think, again, that comes from your, the people you were around.

And for me, I was very lucky. I had Alon of Alon of really great friends and family, uh, Alon of great mentors in my life. To kind of steer me the right way, uh, that has helped me get to where I am today. Uh, I've always been a, a, a big fan of mentors. I actually mentor a few people myself just because I had some really good mentors in my life and still do.

And I think that's really important to have someone encourage you, uh, to support you and, and, and let You know that it's okay. It's okay to fail. Uh, there's that adage if you ski or snowboard, You know, if, if you haven't fallen on the mountain, you, you probably haven't pushed yourself hard enough that day.

Uh, so I think that is really important as an entrepreneur and leader is you wanna push [00:46:00] yourself and you're gonna fall, but that's okay. You're just gonna get right back up. So ho Hopefully that gives you a little bit of

insight.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah, And I think that's great. And I really like that, uh, the, You know, try new things component.

when you do hear that from childhood, it, it's so different than trying to convince yourself, uh, freshly as an adult. I know, You know, my son is 11, um, and now like entering middle school, I've been trying to kind of push him to, You know, try, uh, try new things and it's, uh, like the openness to be willing to do that, um, I think can be a challenge.

Right? I faced Alon of resistance, but then I think of some of the things that he's into now, like golf and going to the tech club, uh, at school or things that he had resistance to. Now he loves them. Um, and then you have to try to bite your tongue really hard not to say, I told you so as a parent,

Joe Campanella: Well, well, you miss a hundred percent of the shots that you don't take. Right? And, and that's something that my wife and I have instilled in our kids. [00:47:00] Is, uh, You know, ask you, you never know unless you ask. Um, they may say no, but if you don't ask, You know what the answer is. Um, And so you wanna try new things.

And that's great that you encourage your kids to do that because you're absolutely right. If, if there are times that, You know, your kids may not think that they're into something, but hey, let's, let's try some new food. Let's try a new activity. And lo and behold, like you said, wow, like I really, I'm really into golf.

This is something I didn't think I would enjoy. Um, that is, You know, life. The, that's, that's a variety right of, of life is there's so much, life has so much to offer. Uh, variety is the spice of life. And, and we encourage our kids to try, You know, not just sports, but everything, You know, music and sports and, and, and the theaters and the arts.

And, You know, that to me is, is I think really important for young people as, as well as, uh, young business leaders is it's, it's okay. I think Alon of times, at least for me personally, I thought. You know, Hey, I, I'm, I'm in over my head. [00:48:00] I'm supposed to be a leader here. I, I, I can't fail. Like, I can't, You know, people can't see me making mistakes, but over time you realize it's okay.

It's okay to make mistakes. That's how you learn. You learn more from your failures than you do from your successes. And I would encourage any leader to, You know, make as many mistakes as you can early on. That's when you're learning. Now, if you're making the same mistake over and over again, that, that's a different issue.

Um, but, You know, if you make that mistake, and I'll, I'll share a quick story. When I came down to Baltimore, um, I was working for a mortgage company. I just got into the mortgage industry, and, uh, you had a read a rate card to understand certain lenders, what their rates were for certain loans.

Unfortunately for me is my, one of my first deals. I misread the, the, the sheet and I quoted a certain rate, uh, which we couldn't honor. And my manager came up to me and said, Joe, we got a problem here. So-and-so's getting ready to close, uh, You know, tomorrow or two days, uh, the rate that you quoted them, you, you, you mispriced it and, uh, I [00:49:00] made a mistake.

So he is like, we, we can do one of two things. One, we can tell the customer we, we can't do the refinance. However, that's a really bad customer experience. We don't want to do that. Or what we can do is we can close the loan, but we're gonna take a hit. You know, the talk to the owner, he, he's gonna split it with you.

He will take on half. But instead, I thought I was gonna make a few thousand dollars instead, it cost me $500 to make sure this deal closed. And I was upset, I was pissed at my manager. I didn't understand it at the time. Um, but I will tell you this. Guess who never made a, uh, a, a a mistake rating rate sheet.

I, I became the defacto person to go to at the mortgage company to read rate sheets because I learned a very valuable lesson it cost me, but I never made that mistake again. Uh, and that is something, as time went on, I learned, wow, that was a tough lesson. At the time, I didn't understand it, but moving forward, that was, that was, I'm so grateful for that because it taught me so much about making sure how to do something the proper way.

And, and again, moving forward, I, I never made [00:50:00] that mistake again. So I would encourage leaders, You know, make those mistakes early on. It, it is okay that you're gonna learn from them. Um, and that's how you turn, You know, those, those hard lessons into something that's positive.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I love that. And I think that's a really strong place to wrap up the conversation. Uh, good advice there. So, um, as we do that, Joe, uh, can you let our listeners know what's the best way to reach you if anyone's looking to get in touch?

Joe Campanella: Yeah, sure. So, uh, you can reach me on LinkedIn. You can reach me at my email, which is just joe@complyly.com. So Joe at C-O-M-P-L-I-L y.com. Love to hear from you, answer questions, uh, You know, if there's a potential for us to help each other out. Uh, I, I'm all ears and, uh, You know, thank you so much, Natalie, for having me on today.

I enjoyed our conversation. This was fun.

Natalie Nathanson: Thank you. Thank you. It was really great to have you. And I loved hearing so much of what you shared and the conversation from and how you navigated, uh, that investigation and coming out of it with [00:51:00] a successful new company. Just such a powerful example of, uh, kind of resilience and, uh, opportunity and the the true entrepreneurial mindset.

Um, So thank you so much for that.

Joe Campanella: Thank you, Natalie.

Natalie Nathanson: and thank you too to everyone who's listening. If today's conversation sparked something for you and I'm sure that it did, please pass this along to another leader. We know that insights and stories like this fuel fresh thinking and help us all drive real transformation in our companies and in ourselves.

So thanks again and this has been another fantastic conversation on Shift and Thrive. I'll see you all next time.

That's a wrap for this week's episode. For show notes and more visit Shift and thrive podcast.com. A special thank you to our sponsor, magnitude Consulting, bringing you the thinking power of a growth consultancy and the getting it done Power of a full service marketing agency to help B2B companies fuel their growth.

For more information on magnitude and to get your [00:52:00] complimentary transformation readiness assessment, visit magnitude consulting.com/. Get ready. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.