Shift & Thrive: CEO Insights on Driving Change

S&T_Leslie Poston
===

[00:00:00]

Natalie Nathanson: Welcome to another special edition episode of Shift

and Thrive

as part of our go to market series. Today's episode is a bit different. We

are not

only talking about go to market and strategy, we're also diving into the psychology behind leadership and decision making. And with that, my guest today is a seasoned go to market strategist and leadership advisor

With over two [00:01:00] decades of

experience bridging

the worlds of

technology, marketing, business, and

psychology. She

was recently CMO of Austin Data Labs where she helped transform the company's go to market,

ultimately lead

leading them towards

a successful private

equity acquisition. She's also a published author, podcast host,

and founder of Mind Media Tech. Where she now helps executive teams build psychologically safe, high performance cultures,

and

make smarter decisions at the top.

Leslie Poston, welcome to the show.

Leslie Poston: Thanks for having me. How are you today,

Natalie?

Natalie Nathanson: I am

doing great. Thank you. I am very excited for our conversation today. And to kick us off, I'd love to go back to your time at Austin Data Labs where I know you helped take a relatively unknown AI company with. Uh, limited go to market strategy

to a

$30 million a IR business that

was ultimately acquired.

I know you were navigating a lot of those typical kind of early stage challenges and different shifts in the organization. So

can [00:02:00] you

start by, you know, walking us

through that

transformation, you know, how did you first approach defining or redefining the market strategy?

Leslie Poston: Sure. I think, uh, Austin Data Labs is unique for, um, several reasons. One, it was

a close

knit small team that had been working together at previous companies for quite some time. So I came into a bonded group that already had a good deal of psychological safety, uh, happening. People trusted each other.

They assumed good intent. So. When you come into that environment, it's like cheating. It automatically makes changes like a shift in go to market strategy or an expansion.

So much easier.

Uh, so I have to, to set that out. There was no, no need to do any coaching, uh, on that aspect of Austin Data Labs and some executives come in and have to take care of the coaching hurdle first, right?

When they want to change, uh, go to market. Uh, so that made the change management aspect of this pretty [00:03:00] easy. Um. One thing that was very interesting, uh, is because

this

was a B2B SaaS data science company. Uh, they were serving many industries when, when I joined them, uh, they had been in business for I think about four years.

Uh, when I joined, they were. Probably at lifestyle business level is how I would describe them, right? They had happy customers, but they weren't growing, uh, and they were serving the markets that interested them, which I think is a really common problem for startup cultures.

Uh, each person that brought in

business brought in business that resonated with them personally.

So they were serving oil and gas, they were serving. Aviation. They were serving restaurants, they were serving hospitals and healthcare. Um, they were serving the food industry. So the first hurdle was determining where the customers were happiest

and what part of

the product served them best so that we could expand into

that market.

And that required a lot of meetings with the [00:04:00] executive team. So the team was made up of the CTO Suhil, who's a data scientist. A brilliant person has a lot of patents under his belt, um, really drawn to complex problems. Uh, a man named Simon Drake, who is a.

That has a degree in theoretical physics. It ended up, uh, in the software world.

So he loves broad network problems, right? And then

you had,

uh, Dave Brown, who was really strong in the ag industry and Robert Martin, who's got a great, uh, MBA from Harvard. So really strong in the COO aspect. So he had a

good backbone

getting them on board, um, with a shift required, examining what was working and what wasn't.

And we

determined that the most enthusiastic customer should lead

us.

Right. That was the, uh, the main driver of the change. So for them, that was the agriculture and food and beverage, uh, industry. So they ended up pivoting away from oil and gas, healthcare, aviation, everything else,

and

focusing entirely on the [00:05:00] food supply chain around the world.

So big shift. It took about, I would say a year to really hone in the marketing and hone in the sales team to have this new messaging that wasn't as broad. Uh, we ended up having to have several meetings with the rest of the company, the rest of the team, there are about 20 people to make sure that everyone was on board and hear their feedback.

And the most interesting aspect of this for me, uh, came from the Brazil team. So the company was global from the start, and we have an office in Brazil,

uh,

run by a brilliant team. And they had so much to say, especially about

the food and

beverage industry, industry that, uh,

they had

been waiting to tell us, right?

So to give them the opportunity to brainstorm and help direct that marketing was an absolute, um. Unique opportunity and it also enabled us to do, um, I would say Portuguese and English marketing. Right. Which was a challenge for me. That was

exciting.

Um, [00:06:00] finding content creators in Brazil that could write

effectively in Portuguese about data science

and

the

meat industry down in Brazil, which is what

we were serving

there.

Um, was another challenge, um, that was really interesting. Um,

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's, um, you know, that shift from, we serve kind of anywhere where we have a network

or any market

where, uh, where we, you know, have a, a good solution for and then needing to hone in on, you know, where do you place

your bets.

I think that can be a scary thing for organizations, um,

especially in

those earlier stages. Um, curious kinda what those

discussions were

like and was that, you know, what did you do to kinda move

the team through that?

Leslie Poston: Absolutely. So this is a data driven team. It is the most data driven team I've ever worked with. So we were not doing feelings marketing, uh, at this, at this company at all.

So

We had to take the input of the data science team on what was truly effective and truly working in the software so that we didn't over promise and under deliver.[00:07:00]

And we had to take the customer feedback with us when we were having these discussions. So, um, what was working for them and as, as many software companies early stage do, the software had become a bit custom. Uh, for each customer,

right?

We had the, the small team and the, the, the bandwidth to do changes that each individual customer wanted.

So, productizing the SaaS product and making it more uniform was another challenge. Um, I would say that is the challenge that got

The

most friction, the most resistance because Austin Data Labs has a policy, um, or had a policy of hypercare. That's what they called it. So on for our customers, twenty four seven available by phone to any of them anytime they wanted to call.

So to change the product made some people concerned that we were going

to be changing that,

uh, aspect of the company. So that took some reassurance and some planning around [00:08:00] customer satisfaction and putting in a framework, again, led by

the Brazil team in this instance where the customers were going to be served no matter what happened to the software.

So.

Natalie Nathanson: Did that includes include Suning customers that were no longer in the ICP or how was that approached?

Leslie Poston: So we decided

not to do that. Um, in part because of the industry we chose. So some of the earliest customers were in agriculture, uh, and the food supply chain, and they were kind of our smallest customers. They were at the lowest price point. But one thing to know about serving the food and beverage and ag supply chain is those customers talk to

each other.

So

that is a who, you know,

word of mouth industry. So we were not going to abandon those customers. We appreciated them for one thing, but also to choose that industry and then abandon the smallest customers in it

would've been a mistake. So,

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Which just goes back to knowing, knowing your market [00:09:00] and, uh, and really also bringing your, your company's values to everything you do.

Leslie Poston: Exactly. Yeah.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

Um, I'm curious a

little bit more on the kind of the how of what did you change and you know, I've seen in these kinds

of shifts

you

can do kind,

rip and replace and get kinda everything ready behind the scenes and then, uh, and then relaunch or more incremental and like what do you prioritize,

especially when

you have a, lean team and all of that.

So

can you

talk

a little bit more

about how you went about that?

Leslie Poston: Sure.

So we decided to prioritize

customer care and customer experience at the heart of the marketing above all else.

Um,

we did not start a BM until I was there for about three years. Like we held off on all of that to just focus on the care aspect and what that entailed was using the internal team.

To, um, and the executives to drive the content direction, to train the sales team on what we wanted them to say, and then hiring vendors, uh, that could

help us. So there

were two key vendors that really made this project [00:10:00] a success. One was a tech reporter in Brazil. Um.

I'll record a

sound clip of her name separately for you 'cause I actually need to get her permission to

tell you.

Sorry.

Um, she was lovely and she generated

so much content,

um, for sales and marketing for us in Brazil. It was astounding, um, how quickly she worked and how much she could generate for us. But she's also a tech journalist in her

spare time, so she was one of those rare vendors where she brought her network.

Um, with her to this project. So I would say we would not have been as successful in

Brazil without that vendor's help.

I do not speak Portuguese. I've tried to learn it. Uh, I do speak Spanish, but Portuguese is very

difficult. Um.

The other vendor that was instrumental in the success was Pixel Media. I don't know if you've heard of them at all.

Um, it's run by

a woman named Heather, who's lovely.

Um, she embedded herself

in the company to help us change the ux,

[00:11:00] so the user experience of the actual software. When I got on board, um, the company was all men, except for me at first. We did fix that later on. Uh, but the original software was Orange, red, and Black. With white lettering

over all of it

and very masculine, very difficult to read and experience.

It didn't

look as polished as the software functionality was, right. It didn't match what it was doing for customers. So we changed that before we changed anything else about the marketing and we focused on that for a year.

Um, Heather embedded with the company, she and Jim, uh, also at Pixel Media. Uh, became almost part of the Austin Day Labs family, so to speak. Really got to know each of our customers, understood how they use the software in and out, um, and helped us change it to make sure that the. Way the customer was being served really reflected what we were doing for [00:12:00] them.

'cause the interesting thing about Austin Data Labs is you're serving these big food industry customers. So for them, a 3%, uh, increase in efficiency or reduction in fuel, fuel is billions or millions of dollars, right? So our software at first did not reflect that visually, uh, or in the experience.

Natalie Nathanson: Um, you talked about, you know, Heather and her, her team really embedding themselves, which, you

know, speaking

as a, a marketing services provider, I think is the, the way we like to work with our clients.

I'm curious to hear, um, just like in terms of your marketing, uh, structure overall, like how did you build the team? How did you decide kinda where to bring

in outside

support, what to, what to

keep

internally? Can you talk a little bit about that journey for you?

I.

Leslie Poston: Sure. So what we needed first and most was content, right? So much more than I could generate. So all of my hires were content hires and then leaning on the executive team. And so we took a thought leadership approach [00:13:00] to content. So we were interviewing our executives and our customers. Constantly to make videos, which resonate very well, uh, with this market, uh, podcasts, which resonate very well with this market.

They're on the go, they're listening in their cars. That's what we needed

to do.

And then we really focused on case studies and customer testimonies and. All of that customer marketing. 'cause the customers loved, uh, Austin Day Labs

so much. So

another rare occurrence when a customer is begging to

give you a

testimonial, um, I, it's like someone handed me a gift with

this company,

right?

I didn't have to do the extra work of convincing anyone. So, um,

that was lovely.

Um, so

anyway, we drilled down on content and then hired out for

the more technical aspects that we couldn't do. So like UX programming when we wanted to do, um,

like a.

Wiz, I can't

talk today.

when, when we wanted to do a, a feature on the website to

calculate savings, anything

like that, we were hiring out for that.

So,

Natalie Nathanson: [00:14:00] wonderful. Wonderful. And then,

you know, how did the. How

did the team evolve, uh, in the time that you were there?

Leslie Poston: Not much, honestly. It's lean and mean, scrappy little

team. And

uh, when we were acquired, yet even the company that acquired us had a lean, mean marketing team. Uh, I think there were only 13 people. Uh, on the marketing team for a company. The acquiring company had almost 700 people,

uh, in the company. So very small marketing teams.

and I think

that is.

representative of the agriculture industry, very scrappy as an industry, always doing more with less.

Um, so that felt appropriate. And luckily I, because I've been doing this so long, I know a ton of vendors that can always jump in and help us out. So.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I think we see that in, in general, uh, you know, for one of the SMB lower mid-market is keep the teams small and and tight and everyone has,

uh,

their area of expertise,

but also knows

how to wear multiple hats [00:15:00] the right way. You can get a lot done without adding a lot of the, I would say, like bureaucratic layers that sometimes, uh, you experience that I think in, in.

These, like these days with these markets and how much is changing, um, you need that agility and you need a small team that works really well together.

Leslie Poston: The

interesting thing too is I was

doing this during COVID,

so

the entire time I was at Austin Native Labs, I joined in

2020, um, right after the COVID

Lockdowns hit. So for the first three years, we didn't meet each other in person.

Uh, we

were all working at our homes remotely, uh, which is kind of a testament to the team that we were able to be so successful, uh, doing that.

And so I think what was missing from the marketing at Austin Data Labs, uh, was the ability to hire an events person because the agriculture is also a very in-person. Uh, industry. And so had it not been COVID, the events would've been my first hire

and I probably would've hired two events

people to go to various events around the country.[00:16:00]

But that didn't happen because of, uh, 'cause of COVID. So,

Natalie Nathanson: Right, right. Gotta build the team for the times you

Leslie Poston: Exactly.

Natalie Nathanson: Yep. Um, so I'd love to shift gears a bit and really, you know, after you led, uh, this go to market transformation and saw it through the acquisition, I know you made a big pivot and launched your own firm that helps companies build, uh, psychologically safe teams and kind of improve, uh, leadership function.

Can you talk about, you know, how your current work. reflects some gaps that you've maybe seen, uh, in various parts

of your

career and kinda the impact that you, that you hope to have on those teams now?

Leslie Poston: Certainly, certainly. So I'll start by talking about the, the top level, the C-suite a

little bit. Um, so

one thing that. People may not know about being in the C-suite, like if, they haven't gotten there yet in their career, is that it can be very isolating.

it can be incredibly lonely

to be at the top.

And what ends up happening is you get kind of in a bubble

And you only

talk to a [00:17:00] handful of people. They may not understand your company, they may be in your company and not have your best interest at heart. But in general, I found that people in the C-suite tend to get a lot of very bad advice from people that are supposed to be helping them out.

And that coupled with some residual office culture issues, centered around communication and command and control, leadership versus collaborative leadership. flexibility versus rigidity. and, you know, cognitive function. all of that can combine to make a C-suite have such bad

leadership

that companies flounder.

And

especially

when you're looking at times like we're in right now where everything

is always in flux,

that's gonna make a company struggle because we're not able to

be in

control anymore and we have to work with that instead of the world we

wish we had.

So

I.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. And I know in, you know, very large organizations, it can be hard to kind of bridge from the C-suite down through [00:18:00] kind of all the, the different departments across the organization.

In theory, it should be, uh, kinda easier in smaller company environments, though I think some of those symptoms that you're describing are prevalent regardless of company size to some degree. So I'm curious, you know, for the, all the CEO listeners in our audience, like how do you make sure

you're getting

good and honest advice from your, from your team and from anywhere in the org?

Leslie Poston: I think the key and, and why I talk so much about psychological safety, uh, is to not breed a culture of

descent, right? So they have that,

uh, kind of trope at McKinsey. I used to work at McKinsey back in the day and they say they have a culture of descent. And you're supposed to be able to speak up and up the chain about ideas that you

have. But what

ends up happening is you get more of a culture of devil's advocates when you say you have a culture of dissent, which is not the goal, right? So a true psychologically safe team feels

comfortable

communicating with each other

about what [00:19:00] we're

learning from mistakes, what we're learning from failures.

Praising people for successes. Uh, not just in a performative way, but in a real, Hey, you specifically did this thing that, that helped us. Thank you. Um, and more importantly, communicating with the C-suite more often and differently. So a lot of, um, HR teams will.

Uh,

and no shade to them. This is just what we've been doing for a long time.

A lot of HR teams will suggest one-on-ones, uh, with your, you know, skip level management, or they'll suggest more company offsites. And those are not bad things, but especially the one-on-ones don't really solve the psychologically safe teams problem. What ends up happening with that is you get a more combative.

What are they talking about in their one-on-one versus what we're talking about in mine, um, environment, which kind of again, goes into that command and control problem with that. Some companies tend to have. So, uh, we found, [00:20:00] um, psychologists have found that it's better if you do more group events, if you allow people to speak, and there are a variety of ways to do that to honor the various personalities on your team.

Introvert, extrovert, neurodivergent. Um, one of the keys is not to make everyone

speak

right? We, uh, we're kind

of.

Uh, as ex extroverts especially, we kind of lean into wanting everyone to have a chance to talk. That puts your introverts and your neurodivergent folks on the spot. So what I found is effective is send around a email right before the meeting and right after the meeting saying, what did you not get to say in the meeting?

Tell us now so they're not on camera. Or, what would you like us to talk about in the upcoming meeting? Why

don't you

tell me in an email. And that helps people participate and be involved without being put

on the spot, which

creates that sense of psychological safety. So

Natalie Nathanson: I like that. I

think that's

a great tip.

Um, I am, I'm an introvert, but I am one that likes for everybody to have a chance to speak. [00:21:00] And I think that idea of kinda keeping some of that for, for after, uh, is a, is a great approach.

Are there

any other kind of tips or kinda habits that you've seen in your clients

that work

really well for driving that kind of, uh, culture?

Leslie Poston: I think one of my favorites is open office hours, especially on Zoom. So when someone a CEO, or CMO, whoever just says, every Wednesday I'm gonna turn my Zoom on public from two to three, come co-work with me,

Right and talk, we'll talk through coworking. It gives people a very casual environment

to

ask them questions and to get to know them as a person, which makes them feel less far away and makes them trust their advice more.

So it's like

you just

have to bridge the gap. And if you're in an in-person office, it actually, you should still do it on Zoom, otherwise you're kind of get, gonna get like

a big team meeting

experience in the conference room,

which is

not the same, um, atmosphere. It doesn't really have the same

impact. So,

Natalie Nathanson: yeah.

I could see that.

[00:22:00] Leslie, I'd love to talk

to you

a bit about decision making, and again, like in leadership, you have so many different things coming at you.

Sometimes you're

making decisions with

limited information,

limited time, getting lots of different opinions. Do you have any guidance around how CEOs, other executives, uh, should be, you know, working through their decisions?

Leslie Poston: Sure. Um, so I think what's really interesting in business is. We love to say or think we have good instincts about business and good

instincts about decision making.

And I'm guilty of this myself, but what usually is happening, um, is we're stuck in system one thinking. So, uh, that's

a phrase

coined by Daniel Kahneman.

And what that means is your knee-jerk instinctive lizard brain response. Uh, and that's rarely correct because that comes from a place that is

protective,

uh, and wary. And so we have to kind

of.

Take a beat and move the thought and the decision into system two thinking, um, [00:23:00] which is more collaborative and more patient and lets you make a better decision.

And in order to do that, you need to have trusted advisors, uh, on your team that you are not necessarily

friends

with, right? So the tendency, uh, is to hire people we know and hang out with people we know and trust the people that, um, we see most often, right? Kind of default to that. Um, presence as,

as the

reason we ask someone for advice, and I would say build an advisory team made up of people at all different phases of their career

that

you don't necessarily know or are friends with, and that have a well-rounded approach to business and life and that are strong where you're not so.

If you're one of the CEOs who loves to help marketing and really understand sales, then you're going to need a group of trusted advisors that don't have those skillset for you. If you're a different kind of CEO that is strong in finance and is really a number cruncher a data [00:24:00] guy, you are going to need to have advisors that are stronger in the soft skills, right, to help you make better decisions.

So, uh, yeah, build an advisory team and meet with them often.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's great. I think in my own experience, like you can have that more informally, like having different folks in your network

that you can

go to for different topics. I know some will build it almost like a board, but more of an advisory board.

Uh, and then, you know, from my own experience, I'm a member of Entrepreneurs Organization and have this group of, kinda eight other business owners. That, you know, we range in age from 30 to 65. We've got services firms, product companies, founders, people that have, you know, bought into the business and having all those

different experiences and

having them know kind of your goals for the business and your personal life, I think can be very, uh,

beneficial.

Leslie Poston: Yeah, I agree. I agree wholeheartedly.

Natalie Nathanson: You know, another topic

I wanna

ask you about, there's been a lot of talk,

uh, about

kind of burnout and turnover. Um, I think not as [00:25:00] much about like what's causing it structurally in organizations. So curious, you know, how does psychological safety or lack of psychological safety kinda impact performance?

And how does that tie in with, uh, kind of those

topics

like burnout and

turnover?

Leslie Poston: Sure. So there's, there's a variety of work environments that aren't psychologically safe and I'm sure everyone has experienced at least one of them. Um, and you could have a gaslighting manager, which is, um, unfortunate when that happens. 'cause. You are being worked to the bone and being made to feel a little crazy, right?

And so that leads to burnout. Uh, you could have an

insecure. Manager, that's a tough

one. When your manager is insecure and then the most high performing people on the team are going to get burnout because they're the ones that threaten that manager the most.

Um,

you could also have someone on the just regular employee level.

That maybe is having a hard time in their life that's bringing that trouble and that toxicity into work because they [00:26:00] don't have safe

places

outside of work. I mean, when we say you bring your whole self to work, uh, we mean it, you can't just leave that stuff at the door. Uh, and if the team is not psychologically safe, there's, they don't have a way to deal with that, to offer that person help and, and protect the team from their toxic vibe, right.

That from what they're experiencing outside of the office. Um, you can also have, I wanna say,

um,

not dishonest leadership. That's not the word I'm looking for, like, um, siloed leadership. So. Information hoarders that protect the information, um, that

goes

up their particular function in the company and don't, uh, share with other parts of the company.

That ends up creating burnout as well. 'cause people are constantly having to work twice as hard to get the information they need to do their job. And it also hits the company's

bottom line,

uh, when these things happen, right? You make less money, uh, if people are constantly [00:27:00] treading water trying to get their jobs done.

So.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

And When you're working with leadership teams, are there any kind of, I guess, natural starting points to look at, uh, where you can have the biggest impact? Any kind of like, I guess,

I don't

wanna call it lower hanging fruit, but, uh, to some degree, like what areas do you try to like address first?

Leslie Poston: So one of the first things I do is ask to sit in on a couple of all team meetings from different departments. Um, 'cause it's hard to give a company advice if I haven't.

Experience what's going on. Um, and

people kind of forget I'm there because I'm just quiet. And then they, they just act like themselves.

At first, I wasn't sure I would

see the real thing when I started doing this, but, but we do, um, generally I found

that there's either one or two people on the C-suite. That are setting the tone for the rest of the company that are struggling, um, to get away from that command and control leadership.

They're struggling to be transparent about what the company needs, uh,

from their employees or

to give good direction.[00:28:00]

Um,

and occasionally there's also some pressure coming from the board. Um, so depending on whether you're a vc, private equity, um, public company, whatever your company structure is. Each board will give you different pressures.

So I will say, um, getting acquired by private equity was my first experience personally with private equity. And I found that very interesting. 'cause I was expecting them to be more focused on money. Uh, and

I'm

sure they were focused on money, but um, their board was actually pretty good at getting the marketing team, for example, to focus on demonstrating.

Real results

from their marketing. They were very focused on attribution. They were very focused on, um, how do you track an event, which is smart for a board. Boards are not usually that well-versed in marketing, so that was unique. Too often you have another kind of board where they don't know what your [00:29:00] company does.

Uh, they don't understand the org structure and they only wanna make money, and so all of their advice is extractive, which does not help you build a psychologically safe team. So.

Natalie Nathanson: So Leslie, I wanna shift gears a bit, and I know, uh, executive leadership and, and AI is an intersectioned, uh, point where you have a lot of experience and a lot of passion. Um, and I think [00:30:00] you've done some, uh, fascinating work on how our brains interact with ai. Um, I listened to a podcast episode of yours recently and talking about how, uh, some of these like LLMs

can change

how we think and make decisions.

Um, wanted to hear from you, like, what should CEOs like, be aware of when they think of,

uh,

these tools and how they're shaping, I guess, their own teams. And then maybe later we can talk about kind of their, the team's effectiveness.

Leslie Poston: Sure. Um,

so I see three risks

for AI for, uh, the C-suite right now that are my.

would call 'em the most important risks. Um, any new technology has a long list. Uh, the first important risk I would say is information privacy and corporate IP protection if you're, um, uh, big corporation. Um, so

I would encourage the C-Suite to learn how to host their

own.

uh, chat GPT on their own servers and not use. [00:31:00] The public open AI and cloud ai, because that's just going to be more secure if you're going to double down on ai, truly double down on it. There are tons of free, uh, lessons from people like Chris Penn who are teaching you how to do this. Um, it's not hard. It is not hard, and most phones and laptops can support, uh, an LLM instance installed on them, uh, at this time.

And then you get one that's trained on your. Business model, your ip, your content, and uh, most of them have also an academic training set so you get that knowledge as well. Uh, the second caution I would say for um, executives is what I, I'm gonna call this brain smoothing and other psychologists are going to get a little mad at

me 'cause that's the Reader's Digest version.

But,

um,

using LLM ai, generative AI specifically, which is different than machine learning ai, um. Using

LLM AI [00:32:00] reduces your cognitive

function kind of no matter how much you use it. It makes it harder to be creative and harder to think of ideas. It feels like

it's helping you, but it's really not.

Um, so I would say if you have your content team using ai, I would pay attention to how your content changes and whether it's.

Becoming more boring. Uh, and it sounds like everybody else's B2B content 'cause it's going to be affecting your content team's, literal brain and how they generate

ideas.

Um, and then

the

third caution I would have with AI is really. I would say there is a concern, especially for companies that have a sustainability mandate, uh, in place, uh, about the environmental cost of all of these ais.

Um, and I don't just mean energy use.

Uh,

right. So there's some pollution issues, um, other things.

So as

people start to quantify [00:33:00] that, it will start to count against your sustainability goals. So I'm thinking of, uh, for example, in the agriculture food space that I just left, they have scope one, two, and three emissions goals that they focus on from the farm.

All the way to the grocery store on your table. They're paying attention to not just methane gas from cows and what the crops put off, like corn, sweat, that I'm sure you've heard about in the news, but the load, the truckload, the diesel fuel and exhaust and everything

else. So this will become

another

number in that calculation.

pretty soon as we learn to

calculate that.

So.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I wanna talk about number two that you gave that the brain smoothing and,

you know, how do

you keep that friction? Uh, because I think the reality is, you know, as AI proliferates gen ai

specifically as we're

talking about, um, there is the pressure, I hate to say do more with less, right? Which we can have a whole separate discussion on that.

Um, but.

I think there's also [00:34:00] like a right way to use it.

Like,

I'll give myself as an example and you can tell me I'm, I'm, I'm not correct in that,

but

Right. Like, I might be curious about a topic, have a conversation with, let's say chat, GPT, um, and then

kind

of do some talking with peers, do some writing, uh, like ask, you know, say, here's what I'm thinking about.

Come back like devil's advocate. So I guess long-winded way of asking,

like, is

there a right way to. Uh, to use these tools, um, that does not kind of erode any cognitive, uh,

friction.

Leslie Poston: I would say there's a better way. I dunno if there's like a right way, but anytime you want to use it, uh, to create. Uh, I would not

do that.

I would continue to have the friction of the blank page and continue creating yourself. However, it's very useful for speeding up your process in other ways. So, for example, I do use LLM AI to help me.

With the [00:35:00] podcast, and the way I use it in the podcast is to write, uh, outlines, right? So I will spew my idea for an episode into the chat. Uh, and I have an LLM on my computer, so I'll spew it into the LLM. It'll come back with

a neatly structured

outline, um, which saves me a ton of time. I don't have to think about the flow, uh, of each episode.

Um, it's not good as a search engine. Um. It's a little concerning that people are using it as search for, for so much, but, um, it is not good as a search engine because it lies too much. It hallucinates. Um, so you're not getting accurate information, but organizational, um. Sorting your thoughts, taking something complex and making it simple enough for you to learn it, that's, uh, another, uh, good thing.

So, uh, universities right now are using it to parse, um, some of the more complex papers. So it's not gonna understand math as well. 'cause again, this is language model, [00:36:00] not machine learning. Um. But it can

tell you the

research question from a paper and summarize it in, uh, if you use Notebook lm, it'll summarize it in a little podcast, uh, for you, which is kind of neat if you're an auditory learner.

Right. Um, so just use it to augment, I guess is what I'm saying, and not make, so,

Natalie Nathanson: Thank you

for sharing that. Uh,

I'm interested to

get maybe a bit more personal, at least as far as your career goes. And one thing, uh, that stood out to me is, you know, how intentional you've been and especially now in building your consulting practice. Um, and I

know you're

doing that while you're, we're completing your doctorate, which I imagine is no small feat.

I'm curious like how your research

has influenced your leadership

style or, or vice versa.

Leslie Poston: I would say, um.

my leadership style has

influenced my research

a a little bit, um, because I believe so strongly in collaboration. But my, uh, dissertation topic is, um, linguistic [00:37:00] adaptation to algorithmic suppression. So, which is just a really fancy way of, um, studying why we change our language to accommodate tech instead of changing the tech.

That's what I'm studying. So the psychology of that, uh, mechanism.

Natalie Nathanson: Where

do you think that heads, uh, kind of in the years ahead, and I'm especially thinking about, uh, kind of where like

innovative

ventures are headed, where your technology as an industry is.

How do you think this, uh, shows up in the years

ahead?

Leslie Poston: That's a

great question and you can see some of it showing up now a little faster than people are, uh, prepared for. Um. Regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum, you can see more surveillance, um, that is reaching into everyone's pocket, so to speak, whether it's appropriate or not. Um, how we handle this moment will actually determine what happens

in

the future.

So, [00:38:00] um, the more we have.

Anti-sense

or anti,

um,

children laws on the internet. Like I forget what the one in the UK is called where they just have you uploading your ID into, uh, uh, YouTube and Spotify. Now, the more we have that type of surveillance, the more we have biometric surveillance, the fewer things we can do to innovate. Uh, as humans.

So

if we want a better future with more ai, more fun stuff, more thriving, um, companies and thriving people, I would say removing the surveillance aspect of our tech is going to be pretty key for that happening. If the surveillance aspect stays in, then what you're going to see is a flattening, um, of content, ideas, creativity, and opportunity.

Because, uh, there's a psychological trigger that being

watched

pushes in people's brains where we automatically adjust ourselves, uh, to fit. If you've read science fiction, they usually call [00:39:00] that the panopticon is the science fiction trope for that.

Um,

and it's just something humans naturally do when they're being surveilled or watched.

so,

Natalie Nathanson: hmm.

And, uh, from your own ex personal experience, like as you navigate these times, are there things that you do to protect your own energy, to avoid burnout? Uh, either, you know, practicing what you preach or, or otherwise.

Leslie Poston: Yes. Um, so I do two main things to avoid burnout. One of them is I walk. Every day. Um,

no matter the

weather, I live in Oregon, so sometimes that's, uh, damp.

Um, and

the other thing I do is log off, which is sometimes harder than it looks and go and help someone in person. Right. So I belong to a

group that helps a

food pantry.

Um, I belong to a mask block that helps people that are too ill to leave their homes, get tests and masking

and healthcare.

Um,

doing that every week keeps me centered and grounded and keeps me [00:40:00] from burning out. I.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah,

I love that. I think that the point about, you know, walking, um, for me, you know, my, my morning workout is, is key

to my

mental health, but beyond that, you know, just any time outdoors,

even if

it's, you know,

five

or 10 minutes in between meetings or something like that, it makes such a big difference.

And it can feel very hard to pull yourself away. Uh, but it, it pays dividends.

Leslie Poston: yes. Sometimes

I'll do a walking meeting if I

haven't been

able to get out. Those are, those are good as well, but

it's not a

true break, so, yeah.

Natalie Nathanson: Right, right. For sure. Uh, Leslie, this has been such a rich conversation. Um, I have one other topic I'd like to, uh, get your thoughts on.

Um, and really, you know, for, you know, CEOs and founders who are navigating

this constant change

right now, do you have any advice for them as they kind of prepare themselves for, for the world ahead?

Leslie Poston: I

think so. I think the key going forward is going to be, um. Flexibility. And [00:41:00] by that I don't just mean,

um.

caving into what other people want. That's not the, the way that, I mean that. I mean actual cognitive flexibility to have a growth mindset. So,

um,

there was a great book put out a few years ago by a woman named Carol Dweck.

Uh, about growth

mindset.

I think every executive should read it if they haven't already, and kind of absorb

the lessons in it,

because you're going to

be,

um, entering an era where

it is always.

constant change. The nice 2019, um, stable times are, are not coming back,

um, even if we want them to, uh, right, because of everything that's going on around the world.

So, uh, being flexible is how you're gonna survive, and it's how your company's gonna

survive too.

Oh,

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Well that's the premise of my podcast, right?

Change is the only constant. And So what do we have to do as leaders to keep pace with

that? So we've come

around full circle.

Leslie Poston: Yep.

Natalie Nathanson: And as we wrap up today's conversation, can you let our listeners know where they can reach [00:42:00] you?

Leslie Poston: Sure.

So you can go to Mind media.tech,

my website, uh,

there's a contact form on there. Uh, or you can send me an email directly at say hi@mindmedia.tech.

Natalie Nathanson: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Leslie. This has been a great conversation.

Leslie Poston: I've enjoyed it. Thanks for

having me.

Natalie Nathanson: My pleasure.

and thank

you to everyone listening.

I loved

hearing so much

of what

Leslie shared, how she uses these, uh, psychological safety insights to help, uh, executives, uh, some of the interesting and important views on, uh, the future and how we can, uh, keep ourselves, uh, prepared for that.

So if today's episode gave you any valuable insights, and I'm sure that it did, please share this with someone. We know that sharing this kind of knowledge and information helps us all grow as leaders

and helps

us drive successful organizational transformation. So thanks again, Leslie, and

this has

been another insightful conversation on Shift and Thrive.

I'll see you all next time.

[00:43:00]