Shift & Thrive: CEO Insights on Driving Change

Natalie Nathanson: today's guest is a highly accomplished CEO with deep roots across enterprise technology and data intelligence. She's a leader whose career has been defined through leading organizations through waves of disruption from the early days of digital media to today's AI driven technology landscape.

Her career spans leadership roles at companies including electronic arts, Yahoo, ZDNet, and sittercity, known for thriving in Times of Change. She brings a transformation first lens across industries now applying it to an insider risk management and user activity monitoring platform that helps organizations leverage AI powered behavioral intelligence to minimize risk and maximize productivity.

She is the CEO of veto. Elizabeth Harz, welcome to the show.

Elizabeth Harz: Thank you, Natalie. So good to see you.

Natalie Nathanson: You as well, and I'm very much looking forward to the conversation today. And I know you've, you know, led organizations, uh, across a range of industries, um, and have shared that navigating change is something that you genuinely enjoy. So I'd love to, you know, start by, uh, asking you if there's kinda a top strategy or mindset from all of your experiences that's really, um, you know, helped you lead through major changes.

Elizabeth Harz: I think

just

accepting

that change is

the only constant is probably really important. And realizing that early in your career, early in your life right, is, is very helpful. Um, I also would say.

I regard leadership as a skill and a discipline, um, just like I

regard

product development or

sales

success or financial management as a discipline.

And I think having

respect

for leadership as a job and a responsibility as a, as a area

of expertise that one needs

to constantly be

learning

about and um, and thinking about is, is really important because there are certainly leaders who don't think about that, right? They kinda shoot from the hip or they just,

they are who they are.

And, um, I take the

responsibility of leadership very seriously. And I think making it a discipline

and something I spend time on and, and think about a lot is,

is important.

Um.

I would also say, you know, being a lifelong learner, which is

obviously very tied to that

and something people talk about a

lot, but it's super important because as change is always happening, the

only way to lead through that and exist through that and not get crushed

by that is, you know, to constantly be learning and find it interesting, um,

and, and

exciting instead of, um, you know, too, too scary or, um, intimidating.

Um, and the

last thing I would mention is just

the importance of a network. Um, I forget that

book

I read kind of early

in my career, but it's called like Digging Your Well Before You Are Thirsty or something. I don't know if you recall that

book. Um,

but I,

I thought I read that quite early

in my

career and, and, um.

And thought that was really interesting, just how important

a network

is and that it's

also a source

of just

really great lifelong career long relationships and, and all that. But

thinking about your network

and constantly trying to stay

in touch

and trying to add

value

to people without any

expectation of return, but that in a career, how important

a network was.

Um, I kind of close this section by saying when I started out,

people still

did stay at

a company for, you know, 20 or

30 years. Not that people don't still,

but it was much more common than,

than it is

now. Um, and I found that book

quite interesting saying, you know,

20 years from now, like

people won't be

at the same company for. 20 or 30, 30 years as the

norm. And so thinking of like building your career as um, this continuous story you're building

or, you know, trajectory

you're building, instead of

just thinking about what am I doing at IBM or what am I doing at ge, you know, and how do I get to the next level there? So I thought those was, those were two

very

interesting lessons young.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's very interesting. And I wanna go back to a couple things that, that you said here. We'll talk, we'll talk about the kinda the network, uh, a bit, uh, more as well because I do think, you know, in, in times of change, like we're living through right now, um, you know, ideas can come from within the organization, but they also come from that interaction with kind of peers and right people that you might have

worked with

years before.

Remember when we kinda went through that transformation and kind of talking about, you know, what, what came from that, that we can look at through, through a new lens

in current

time. So I know for me, that's, uh, a place where I get a ton of

value.

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah. And I also, um, there's

more senior you

get,

um, the,

the thornier the issues are that you come, um, across and frankly, you can't just Google it or buy a book about it. Right? Um, the first time I came across.

financial

fraud, right. Uh,

I didn't come from finance. It

definitely smelled fishy

to me, but I was no expert, you know, called a,

a former

CFOI had

worked with that I had a tremendous amount of respect for, and he was like, you need to hire

a forensic accountant. I was like, what's a forensic accountant?

You know, there's just things you don't, you don't

know until, until you get there and you gotta

figure it out fast. Um,

and, uh, your network can be of, of significant help in those, in those

times as well.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, for

sure. And I also wanna ask, you know, you were talking about, uh, kind of being a lifelong learner, uh, which I, uh, share that with you, and I think a lot of, uh, kinda leaders and entrepreneurs, uh, do, because

it's both a, a luxury and a responsibility in my

view to, uh, to, you know, bring those into the organization and to develop our own skill sets.

And I'm curious, what's been most helpful to you? Uh, kinda how do you do that? What do

you do to kind of learn

new things, pay attention to kinda how you're showing up, that sort of thing.

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah, I mean

I think it

goes hand in hand with the personal attraction. I have to change. Um, and so

I just try to talk to

innovative

people

on a regular

basis, read a lot regularly,

um,

and. I've had the luxury of working in lots

of different verticals from

advertising and media

to ed tech to

um, gaming, um,

now cybersecurity, just lots of different industries. And so the opportunity when topics start to bubble, you know, whether that's

generative AI

or um, uh,

quantum computing or, or whatever, the opportunity

to talk

to people

in lots of different

industries and pick their

brains a

bit about how

they

think about

these

opportunities and what worries them, um, and how

they're staying.

Uh, up

to date is super

interesting to me. Um, there's also obviously always great conferences. Um. Back to the network thing. I

have my

informal network, but I also participate in a couple

of, like,

I call them

CEO support groups. Um, but having those formalized groups where you are meeting on a regular basis

and interacting with people about some of the most cutting

edge topics or, um, most salient,

uh, business dynamics

going on,

whether

that's tariffs or,

um, geopolitical issues or, or whatever.

Being able

to have,

uh, honest conversations with people, dealing with those same issues in,

you know, different industries at a similar level is

incredibly helpful. But

I think

you can

do that at any level,

right? You can create these

groups, whether they're informal networks or you

can join these formal

networks.

Both

are

incredibly. I think.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I mean, I, I definitely agree. I, uh, for myself, I'm a member of Entrepreneurs Organization and have kind of a group of, uh, kind of eight other CEOs and, uh, business owners. And I think the benefit in something like that is you have like the longevity of the relationship, the depth, getting to know folks.

Both personally and professionally. Um, and then my, my second, uh, one is an agency owner group that's a little bit more informal, you know, in some cases a bit competitive, but also just, uh, much more about sharing, uh, based on what's happening and what's changing in our industry. And that can be

as strategic insights. It

can be kinda more operational or tactical tips. So I know for myself, like those two different, uh, kinda groups, uh, combined are what bring me kind of the, the value and support that I need in that regard outside of obviously the team internally.

Elizabeth Harz: yeah, definitely. I think both of those,

um.

When you're

in a certain role, you can always

think of that role from different

lenses.

And so being involved with

groups from the different lenses is very helpful. And then you can triangulate all of that into your point of view. Um, I also, you know, like I'll go to,

you know, you get those emails

or your investors

are running a thing for

like the marketing team of their port codes. Like I'll

go to those on occasion. I'll

be the only CEO there, you know, it's a bunch of VPs of marketing or something. And that understanding that never wanna get so far from things that you don't understand what's going on in the,

on the ground. Right.

Because innovation is happening

closer

to operating than,

than further away.

Right. And just being willing to. Show up and take

a class or

listen

to, uh, you know, a presentation or a TED talk or whatever. Uh, and just that realization that you can learn from everybody. I learn, you know, I have

a daughter in college and she'll talk about

something and I'll start researching

that. And you can learn from all over the place.

Right. But you have to be open to that

and then you have to make time for it. 'cause it's time consuming.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah. And figuring out what works for you. Right. I'm a big, uh, kinda audio listener, which

is

why I love podcasts, uh, so much. Um, but to your point, there's uh, no shortage of information out there. It's really kind of finding kind of the sources that are helpful to you and, and, uh, all of that. And then how do you kind of internalize that knowledge and then be able to apply it?

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah. And I think it

goes back to taking.

Taking your craft very seriously.

I started in sales,

um, and I sort of

begrudgingly

ended up in

sales.

Um, you know,

uh, it was

sort of an in InBetween college and law school kind of thing. I never

ended up going

to law school, which I

could tell that story

later. But,

um, that was sort of what I thought I was going to do.

And so sales

was just a little bit of

a, a

fun experiment, money making assignment in

my mind for a short

period of time. And, um, I

sort of was

like a little embarrassed about

it, you know, that I had gone into

sales or something and very

early

in my sales career, I mean, I was super lucky

to work at Ziff Davis, which was, uh, this technology, uh,

print

powerhouse. We

published magazines that

covered the technology revolution that was

happening, especially the personal computer revolution that was happening at that

time.

I

really

sound like

a D dinosaur,

but, you know, magazines like PC Magazine and, and PC Week and um,

and magazines like that.

So

that's a whole amazing start to my career.

You know, the

opportunity to meet people like Michael Dell

and,

and Bill

Gates and, and others. 'cause they all came

to the,

the church of, of Zip Davis.

Um, but early in that the, um, because Z Davis was so focused on sales as a, as a, um, career and as a expertise and their, um,

how, how seriously they took training

and development

and how seriously they took sales as a craft.

It really struck me, you know, you don't have to be a surgeon

to

have a lot of respect for your craft and be constantly, you

know, investing in that.

Um, and, and,

uh, so that was.

That made quite

an impression on me, and I think no matter what I've done since then, I've always thought about how do I really respect this craft that I'm in and, um,

and improve

at it.

Natalie Nathanson: I love that. I think that's a really, uh, great way to think about it and wanted to ask you about, uh, your love of change. It's a bit around the personal side, like where do you think that comes from in you?

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah. Um,

I

am the youngest

of seven kids, um, like

a big,

uh, crazy

Irish Catholic family. Um, and, uh, you know,

I'm the youngest

by far,

so when

I was

four, you know, my eldest sister was 18, um, and all of my siblings, I'm definitely the dumbest of

the, the lot, you know, just like really

bright, interesting people who

led.

Super interesting lives, a lot of global travel

and interesting careers. And so

I think first and foremost, being part of a big family, like

you have to, um, or, you know, it's easy for you to experience a lot of change and witness that and become very adaptable. And you're seeing a lot of life

up close and personal as the youngest, like very early

from college and

advanced degrees and marriages and divorces

and addiction and, you know, weddings

and whatever.

Like, it's just a lot of,

um,

people, if you have one sibling or something, you're not necessarily seeing all

that so

young and, and, and so many different things. So, um, I honestly think

my

birth order factor and being, you know, part of a, a large family. Um,

made me just look at

change as tremendous excitement and opportunity, um,

versus, uh, you know,

frightening or, or negative.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

Yeah, that's interesting. Where kind of that comes from. As you were talking, I

was

thinking about my own childhood. I have one sister, she's six years younger, and so, uh, I think I had to entertain myself a lot, right? Don't, don't have like another sibling around the same

age, Um, to, to play

with. I think for me, the love

of change

comes from, uh, uh, disdain for boredom, right?

And so always kind of searching kind of something new, getting

turned on

by new ideas, learning new things, and you never know, like what new kind of insight or nugget or, uh,

discipline,

uh, kind of sends you down kind of a really exciting rabbit hole of new, new learning and thinking.

Elizabeth Harz: Exactly. Exactly. I had a

lot of different experiences being, you know,

thrust upon

me.

Um, my parents were also big, um, fans of travel. Um,

I

always say I'm kind of scarred from some of the cross country trips we all took in a station wagon or something. But even those, right, you're just

exposed to so many different

experiences and foods and

people.

Um, and I think it just really

got me very interested in living life

to the fullest and experiencing

lots of of different things.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to, um, you know, take a, a bit of a shift in the conversation around change and I know

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah.

Natalie Nathanson: a lot

of the transformations

that you've

led or one of those combined experiences you've created, uh, a playbook, uh, for yourself around kinda how you approached transformation. Can you talk a little bit about kind of, I guess like how did you develop that and then I would love to, you know, dive into some of the core components of that.

Elizabeth Harz: um, earlier in my

career, the change management that I did, um,

was

kind of came out of my natural interest in new things and harnessing

new technology.

Um, but as my career

progressed, I realized it is very

helpful to have a

bit of a

management system for change. And to think about it

a little bit more critically,

I think of it, as,

as kind of the marriage of the stages of change, um, right. And

having respect

for the

fact

that, um, and, and just stepping back

a moment,

I, I genuinely believe

that most people are interested in change.

It's just how they experience change. Because I mean, there isn't a person living their life that

isn't constantly dealing with change, whether that's aging or getting

married, or get

having

a child or getting divorced, changing

jobs. You know,

life

is about

change. So.

Lots of people say people don't like change.

I don't know

where that comes from or if

that's really very true. I

think

people

enjoy change. They would

be pretty

bored, um,

their

entire life. Not, not changing, but it's how they experience that change, right? Is the change negative? Is it forced on them or do they, are they part of that

change and do they have their

own advocacy in that

change?

So, um,

I do think like the vision element and being able to articulate

that you're going to a better place.

There's a mountaintop,

you know, that we're headed

to

and why that's better than

you know,

where we are today.

Sometimes it's urgency and has to happen, right?

Um,

the platform's on fire or

you know,

the company's losing money or whatever those things. But sometimes it's a really successful organization. But in order to sustain that success, pretty significant change is, is needed.

Um. Then, you know, communicating and,

um, enabling participation throughout

the whole organization.

Um, really important and

I think really critical to acknowledge that not everyone will come with you. Right. And

that that's okay. Also, and

being candid, allowing,

enabling employees to be candid about, Hey, this is

just, I'm too tired for

this, right? I grew this

business from zero to 250 million. Like, I just, I need to go do something

different.

Um, but

creating like psychological safety and letting people get to those conclusions or

helping them arrive at those conclusions and, and doing it quickly and

being able to move forward. Um, so

there's like a whole piece around that. But a lot of those steps I

just talked about are in the, you know, John

Kotter change management,

uh, model. And then

there are a lot of practical, you

know, tools

to use along the way also. 'cause

you can

have these theoretical models, but what, what are some of the practical things you

can do

to,

to make that

all happen? Right? Because you need communication. So are you gonna do a

global all hands every other day?

Are you gonna do that once a month,

right? Like, are you gonna write emails every Friday before the end of the week and kind of reflect on what's happened and how you've moved the bar or not? Are you gonna use KPIs? Are you

gonna use oks? Like what's your goal setting system? So there's a

bunch of

tactics to

um,

sort of translate models of change into,

you know, digestible pieces that people can

deal

with and help you on.

Um, so I, you know, I just have a

lot of. Tactical tools to, to help with that.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. One area that I've been thinking about. Recently is, um, right need to, in kind of a major change, you need to kinda bring your organization kind of along for the ride and there's kind of an ongoing, uh, kind of element of kinda what that looks like as the organization is evolving. Some people kind of naturally kind of change faster or more easily than others or kind of embrace the change.

Um, and I feel like especially in today's world where things do feel like they're moving fast, have you been in situations where if not everyone is, uh, kind

of

coming along for that change or they might be falling a bit behind and um, and what do you do to kind of help them, uh, kind of meet the rest of the organization where they need to be?

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah, I mean, um,

you know one of

my firm beliefs about. Successful change is, a lot

of the answers actually lie in the organization.

Perhaps it's been

my

unique experience, but I

doubt it. I just feel like, you know, if you show up inheriting an organization that needs to change for

X reason,

you know, if

you go and

talk to people in the organization at all levels, they generally know that

this

change

has to happen

and they generally have

the answers about how

to get it done.

Um, so I just

believe if you, you

know, get out early, talk

to the organization, um, number one, you're obviously enlisting people and

they're feeling

part of the solution

and not that this change is being.

Sort of handed

down, especially, you know, God

forbid from somebody who's brand new, who doesn't understand potentially the

vertical or the

competitive dynamics or the, you

know, client issues.

You can, you can name all reasons, uh, or all the dynamics they

may be

unaware of.

So that is, um, incredibly

helpful. And in my

experience,

people will self-identify,

um, that they are not

on board for the change.

Um, you know, like I said,

either been there too long, they're just a bit burnt out by the whole thing

and they, they need a change,

but like a bigger change, you

know, a

new challenge, a different, um,

a different company,

a different set of

people.

Um,

um, and then,

you know, there are the,

um, folks

who are super. Excited

about the change and they jump, you

know, right on the boat. And then there's kind of the folks in the

middle that,

um, have their

doubts for whatever reason. Maybe,

you know, you're

new

or they've seen this movie a

couple times and it hasn't worked out.

Um, and

so rightfully so, that group of people needs,

you know, some proof

cauter and a lot of the models talk about having some quick wins

and demonstrating that this direction of change is, is correct, um, and that it will yield immediate

success or, you know, quite tangible and, and close success. Um,

and then you

tend

to see people. Opening up

a bit, coming on board, a

bit more aggressively being part of

the effort. Hey, you know,

if we had done this,

we probably

could have done this better. And instead of as a leader saying, why

didn't

you tell me that? Right? Just like, thank you

so much. That's so helpful. Would

you come to

this meeting tomorrow where we're talking about

X?

Um, and

you see those people

kind of slowly

opening up and, and being some of the best

contributors because they're naturally a little bit, um, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Skeptical.

Um, and a little bit slower to open up, but they're often

the

greatest idea

powerhouses and have thought about things, you know, very

thoroughly and can be huge agents of change.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, the naysayers can be the best champions because there's, they're thinking about things critically in a way that maybe not everybody is.

Elizabeth Harz: And when they're on board, a

lot of other

people will

really get on board, right? If, oh, if

Steven really thinks this, if, you know,

Natalie really thinks this is, this

effort is worth our effort

that this leader is worth betting on,

despite that being a revolving

door for, for five

years or whatever, like, they can often be very, very big touchstones for the organization.

Natalie Nathanson: I'm curious to ask you. You know, I think maybe, you know, five years ago or so, I tended to think from, you know, all my experiences in transformations, whether kinda internal roles or a lot of our clients are going through major change that were kind of helping them navigate. But I

always

thought of it a bit more of a kind of finite start and end to a transformation.

And then of course there's continuous improvement and you know, recalibrating and all of that. It feels to me like the times that we're living in right now. There's so much changing that there almost, uh, won't be an end to the transformation because we're kind of operating against a moving target of kind of the landscape around us changing.

I'm curious, like if you feel that and then if you agree and if so, kind of how does that plug in either with any of the change management, uh, kind of

disciplines

or frameworks that you know, or just kinda how do you think about that?

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah, at the

risk of. Sounding like an idiot downplaying ai, which I will never do.

um,

I, I do think it's

important to reflect that lives are all about change.

Centuries are all about change. History is all about

change, right? If we could live the

last 5,000 years

over in one hour conversation or something, right? It's, there's a lot there.

And so, um,

the industrial revolution, like fairly

significant, um, series of,

of

events, the world and,

and humanity quite different.

You know, post-industrial revolution. Versus

prior. So, um, I think

having some historical context about the moment that we're in is really

important. And I, again, am

not at all downplaying the, significant era that we are

in,

just really

with

the advent of, of, um, artificial intelligence. Um, I would also say, you know, I think

the, the notion that change ends is, is just a misnomer, right? And, and that all these things we are talking about with regards to

change and change management

is

frankly about getting comfortable as a

leader and getting your

organization comfortable with the terrible ambiguity

between receptiveness

to change and some endpoint that.

you

don't ever really reach.

Right? Um, there, there are certainly with

certain

projects, like we are going to change this pricing

model or we are

going

to change

this org structure. There is a beginning, middle, and end. But a lot of what we're talking about now and especially, um,

with, with the dynamics of

AI and it's rapid evolution,

um, I think people have to get

very comfortable with that ambiguity.

Um, which is that middle stage.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I think it goes back to something you said earlier, right? Life is all about change and you can see that

easily in like

each of our lives, but organizations as he's kind of living ever evolving entities, right? And that's kind of a different lens that makes that, uh, you know, make a lot of sense.

Elizabeth Harz: Exactly. Um, exactly.

And.

Natalie Nathanson: So I'd love to maybe dive into a transformation that you led through. Maybe let's start with one earlier in your career, is there something that

stands out that,

you know you really learned something from that experience that you could take us through?

Elizabeth Harz: I think a lot

about, uh, EA electronic arts, the, the gaming company. Um, I was hired,

uh, to help the

company transition from.

and this is how the CEO explained it during the recruiting process, and I found it

so odd. Um, but really from like a

CPG company to a D two C

company now,

you would never really,

and I think on the outside

and especially gamers, you know, wouldn't really think about EA

as a, as a CPG, right?

But

in

reality, they built this product, they pressed it onto a disc

and

they sold that disc to Walmart or GameStop or whatever, and then the game team like

took a month off, went to Hawaii, they

came back and they built the next

Madden for the next year.

Um,

but the

relationships with Madden really existed more

through

Microsoft or

Sony or the platforms with

which

consumers or gamers, you know, were engaging with that, with that product.

Um,

and so, you

know, this was in the early two thousands and,

um,

so

obviously the entire industry, just like

the music industry

and other things, like we're going through this massive transformation of

digital delivery of games direct

to gamers,

you know, streaming

platforms. And this is, again, I, I sound really old,

but.

Just like through that interview process, understanding the language that the company was using

was so

interesting to me because I

had come, I had spent 10 years in digital at that

point, you know, 'cause I was very involved at

the

beginning of, of, uh,

commercial commercialization of the internet

also sound

a hundred.

Um, but, uh,

so I went to EA and my role was to

help.

figure out monetization, new monetization models, right? Because if you were

moving these games from press discs onto digital, direct delivery, you weren't necessarily selling a game for, you know, $60 in a retail store. So

how might we, you know, monetize this ip,

this, uh.

This product in new ways.

And,

uh, as you may,

you know, suspect for gamers, um, game

developers all around the world, uh, you know, having

this woman from New York who was an ad person, you know, walk

into their,

their executive, um, retreat,

I was pretty much the last person that they wanted to,

to see, right?

Advertising and, and New York sounded like selling out and horrible. And, um, because they were all gamers, there was of course instantly like

a pool on it fast I could

be made to quit and

who,

who, would actually do that. Um, which I, of course found out

later

'cause many of

them became very good

friends.

Um,

but I thought that's such an interesting

challenge, right?

How do I craft this opportunity? Which was new ways of

monetization

as something that these extraordinarily talented

people could actually collaborate with me on and

make

happen instead of, um, you know, us

being adversaries. And so that listening tour that I talk about with employees, you know, that's also something I did at Electronic Arts very early.

Um, you know, traveled all around to all the different

studios, talked to these heads of the studios, the individual developers, um, and

just talked about our business.

uh, challenge and opportunity

and enlisted their help. You know, and talked about as

a non gamer when I went

to sporting events, how cool

the, you know,

ads

and brand

involvement in those sporting events could be.

Um, and how might we work with brands to make

a

driving game

even more realistic, make a sports game, you know, even more realistic, how if I

could

deliver, you know,

very high margin revenue to your business

unit to

allow you to hire, you know, more developers and go faster with

your development, what

might that look like?

And we just came up with such awesome, awesome solutions, um, that both the developers and the gamers really enjoyed. Um, you

know, from sponsored downloadable content. You know, gamers could get a, a faster.

car or, you

know,

a bigger gun or

whatever the context, um, you know, provided to, you know, dynamically

rotating door, a boards like inside, you know, a basketball game.

Um, so that

it felt more like sitting in,

in an arena with those, you

know, ads in the, in the arena and those ads, you know, changing. Um, so kind of a long story, but just, you know,

an example about. A really, I

think, a really good

example about hostility

towards change and how to, you know, navigate that

in a

way that

really delivered great outcomes for everybody

involved profitability and enhanced user experience.

Natalie Nathanson: I think it's a great story and I, what I'm taking away from it is, right. One is, uh, your communications to the team and like genuine kind of listening and ideation that comes of that what's in it for, for individuals on the team, for the business overall. And it sounds like being very authentic to kind of what the business was about and how do you like truly make, uh, enhance the experience rather than kinda monetization can sometimes have kind of a negative connotation, but uh, done Right.

It can bring a lot, which sounds like what you led through.

Elizabeth Harz: Right, exactly. For both

the,

the users and the,

the business.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

So can you take us, uh, to the present day, and I know you've been, uh, leading through some, you know, evolutions at at veto.

Can you

talk about, um, you know, the, the company's, uh, you know, background a bit, and then we'll get to kind of what are you, uh, you know, what are the changes you're navigating?

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah, absolutely.

Very such an interesting story because it is, um, almost 25 years old now,

um, and has a long history of

providing

visibility for organiz,

uh,

you know, two

organizations. Um, there were two businesses that

focused on, um,

different use cases that we actually brought together when I joined,

uh, a few years ago.

Um, one

was more focused on, um,

uh.

Visibility and productivity, and one more focused on, um, insider risk management. Um, so we merged those businesses, um, and

it's just been a really

great opportunity to

take

the strength and history of both of them, but really reinvent

the product and the platform at the moment of genic AI's, Um. Uh,

you know, birth, uh, or

you know, the

sort of genic AI revolution.

Um, but, you know, we talk a lot about behavioral

visibility

and how that's

the

kind of operating system or, you know, operational layer that many businesses are missing just

in

general, right? Businesses have lots of tools to understand their

Finances,

their inventory, their sales

pipeline, um, but have really

lacked the tools to

understand what's arguably their most important asset, which is their, their people.

Um, and then, you know, double clicking a bit from

a security

standpoint, a lot of the security issues that

have been addressed over the last five, 10 years have

been, you know, external threats. And, uh,

you know, 80% of breaches last

year actually arose, um, from internal, uh, situations, many accidental. So as

organizations,

security awareness and security efforts

continue to evolve,

understanding.

insider risk is as important as learning how to lock the, the doors

and windows. But

it's been a really, you know,

interesting journey here. A

lot of change

in the

industry, a lot of change internally. And being

a person who loves change, um, it's

been sort of a, a,

a

perfect,

uh,

scenario with a lot of change.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit from kind of the broader industry standpoint, like what are these big kind of industry trends or changes that maybe your target market is facing, and then how does your solution fit into that?

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah, I think, um,

two things I'll highlight.

One is, is just the move to,

um, proactivity and predictability in insecurity.

Um, I think for much of the history on the security front, It was kind

of like

assume the boom

and then when the boom happens,

you know,

contain that,

make sure

it never happens again.

Um, and

I,

you know, was quite interested coming to

this

vertical, especially having spent a lot of time earlier in my career with digital

advertising. I mean, since the mid

nineties, you know, we have been thinking about behavior

and how to get ahead of behavior, how to predict behavior, um, in order to sell things right to, to market

products. And I thought, wow, I

mean, of all places in

the security sector that predictability and

getting ahead of things is extraordinarily important, right? You can save

lots of, lots of things material. Uh, financial savings,

um, you know, national security issues, people's lives. I mean, this is just like

the, the stake search, you know, much larger here than, than

the, you know, hotel ad following you around after you book a flight, you know?

Um, so,

uh, I

think that

opportunity

to really be part of this industry at the moment where there's that oppor, you know, that that moment to shift to. Proactiveness and predictability instead of reactiveness

has been extremely interesting.

Now, couple that

with the real trends that,

you know,

organizations are facing

with humans, you know, working from everywhere and there's

certainly a lot

of people returning to

office, but they're not necessarily all returning,

you know, five days a week. And there's

lots

of companies that are now

remote first or,

Seriously

hybrid.

Um, and then

you have employees bringing their own devices.

Um, when I talk about,

uh, a hundred years ago, again, you

know, in the old days you kind

of get these company issued devices, both your,

you know,

laptop and your phone, and there was a lot of control around that.

Now that's.

definitely

not the case. Think about AI and people using chat, GPT and

pasting, you know, IP and into chat

GPT to, to look things up or,

um,

you know, get answers about things. So there's the device

Wild West,

there's also like the content and, um,

and AI Wild West. So lots

of

new dynamics happening with, um, it

realities and,

and security realities.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah.

I'm curious if you have a, a favorite either use case or specific customer story of kind of the, the impact that kind of looking at this differently and kinda using a platform like yours has made.

Elizabeth Harz: Yeah, there

are, there are so, so many, um. From the security

side as well

as just, you know, better understanding the,

the workforce.

so, you know, just on the general, um, example,

I think that

we could talk about that

a little bit first. So, um, a finance department,

you know, observing and seeing that the

employees are

using Excel a

tremendous amount,

um,

and kind of

being able to dig in and saying what. SaaS platform might we be able to invest in, in order to, or

what analytics tool, you know, can

we use in

order to do that work?

We would rather have our,

um, you know, MBAs and, and CPAs using their minds for more

strategic. Initiatives versus doing a lot of,

you know, data

entry and analysis that other tools

can use. So, um, kind of basic example

there, you know, we have very

cool sentiment analysis in the platform and so understanding

how

people are,

um, uh, thinking about things

and there's a security element to that.

Of course. Understanding, you know, negative speak,

um, you know,

age old issues like sexual harassment

and other things don't go away just 'cause people are working remotely. And

so you can pick, you know, a. Um, hate

speech or, you know, other, other things and be able to, um,

get ahead of those problems in, in an organization.

Um, you know,

can also use sentiment analysis to understand,

we just announced in the

all hands

this morning

we're acquiring this

business, or we're being acquired. You know, getting a finger on the

pulse of are people

generally, you know, supportive of that

and excited about

that, or what

are the areas

that they're concerned

about and how do we,

um, address those things?

So lots of

very interesting examples

of,

um,

understanding your organization in

the way that you understand your financial architecture or you understand your,

you

know, inventory realities. Um,

and

then, you know,

certainly

on the security front,

um. You know, better than,

uh, many people, the, you know,

um, impacts

of

a breach or a security event, the cost of that, you know, sites or, or entire companies.

I

mean, you see

what happened

with CloudFlare and large parts of, of the internet down, right? Like,

when there are issues, it takes

much longer to contain them than you would

like. They're more expensive than

you would like. There's larger ramifications on your business. And so being able to get ahead of that and understanding

and shutting things

down before IP is taken, or before a password

ends up, you

know, in, in the wrong person's hands, it's,

it's really impossible to quantify

how.

Much time

and money and reputational,

um, damage we help our

customers avoid. Because the beauty of using the platform is those things don't happen.

Natalie Nathanson: Right. That is gonna inherently when you're, uh, stopping bad things from happening, it's always harder to quantify than, uh, than the other way around. But ultimately, that's of course, what every organization wants, and that's

Elizabeth Harz: Exactly. And I think you know, with the platform showing

red, yellow, green at a

high level and, and incidents, um,

people get a very good sense of

what they are avoiding

and getting ahead of, um, versus having to,

to guess at it.

Natalie Nathanson: Right, right. Yeah. And it goes back to, as you

were talking,

the shift towards more being more proactive. That by default you're trying to kind of, uh, plan ahead to, uh, kinda optimize and not be in situations where these things are, are coming your way.

Elizabeth Harz: Exactly.

Natalie Nathanson: Elizabeth. I know we only have a few minutes left, uh, but would love to really ask you, uh, a more introspective question based on,

Uh Your, experience

and, uh, you know, if you were sitting in a room with your younger self in your first ever leadership role, what advice would you give yourself?

Elizabeth Harz (2): I think it would probably be just

to trust

myself more.

Um,

I

think, you know, my first leadership role, I started managing other salespeople and had to learn that lesson of like, letting go and, uh, realized that pretty quickly. But I was like struggling with how much do I let go and how much

do I

control? And then later when I managed people that I didn't have operating experience

in that

discipline, you know, finance and HR and legal and, um, engineering, um, just had like a lot of stress and anxiety about being able to add value to those.

Those people and those functions. Um, and I think, you

know, just

relaxing a little bit more probably would've been good for everybody, myself and, and the teams, you know. Um, so I think that's the advice I would give, give people, you know, trust yourself and, and, uh, rely on your network and people who've done it before to, um, to coach you through all of it, which I'm still doing to this

day.

I

ask for help and people ask me for help and, and that's how you, you get through it all. You know, you're not, you're not alone.

Natalie Nathanson: Yeah, I think that's great advice and bringing it back to something we were talking about earlier in the conversation. So that's a, a fantastic place to wrap and if our listeners want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do

that?

Elizabeth Harz: Um, probably through LinkedIn. Um. So I'm just, eh, horrors on, on LinkedIn.

Natalie Nathanson: Perfect. Um, well thank you Elizabeth. This was a

great

conversation.

GMT20251118-160100_Recording_separate4: Natalie,

Elizabeth Harz: I really enjoyed it. Thanks for inviting me. Look forward to seeing you

soon.

Natalie Nathanson: Yes, same.

Uh, so thank you for all the insights that you shared, and thank you to everybody that's listening. I know I loved hearing so much of what Elizabeth shared, the conversation around being comfortable with ambiguity and hearing from her experiences on the different, uh, changes that she's led through.

So if today's episode gave you any valuable insights, and I'm sure that it did, please share this with someone because we know that sharing this kind of knowledge and experiences helps all of us drive successful, uh, organizational transformation and evolve ourselves as leaders. So thank you again, Elizabeth, and this has been another wonderful conversation on Shift and Thrive.

I'll see you all next

time.